1949threepence

Sounds like typical e bay seller bull, Colin. Bit similar to some sixpences being described as "lucky" or a flat disc being written up as "worn, but attractive"

The sharp corner 1949 3d is scarce? The example I bought from Colin Cooke (GVF/AEF w lustre) some years back, is that variety. I'm pretty sure Colin didn't know it was scarce, and I certainly didn't. I thought we discussed this sometime last year ? I'd never seen a sharp edge 1949 threepence, before I saw the image supplied by Gary.

Hi Dave, I used to store my coins quite carelessly, often in Whitman folders, or plastic wallets. But I recently realised how much my collection was worth (20 years of collecting), and decided that a more professional method of storing was necessary. I therefore bought a mahogany cabinet from Peter Nichols I purchased the Pheon, and I'm very pleased with it. Apparently mahogany is the best wood one can utilise for storage, as it has few degrading substances. See quote above.

I collect 19th & 20th century coins up to and including 1952, but nothing beyond, save for the threepny bits I collected early on in my coin career. Currently engaged in collecting Victoria pennies. A very protracted, detailed, expensive but exceedingly intersting process.

The following is a copy and paste of an e mail I received a few days ago from the coin grading service:- For adherents to the number system I doubt it makes much difference, but for those new to cgs numbering, the prefixes do help. Any thoughts ?

Take a look at this 1919KN penny offered on e bay. It appears to be lustrous, yet is pretty obviously another worn coin. How has the vendor been able to make the very lifelike lustrous appearance ? Photoshopping of some sort ? Doesn't this amount to misrepresentation ? No pic of the obverse, incidentally.

possibly something acid cleaned in the past now retoning Maybe, but I've never seen toning so closely approximating to lustre before.

I somehow doubt it will be sold with a starting bid that high. It might go with a "buy it now" of £30.

It was still going when I first became interested in coins in 1990, but as was said earlier, it wasn't very comprehensive. I think it packed in in about June of 1992.

Very interesting article for the coin investor, Coppers. Thanks for that. Numismatics seems to be increasing in popularity, and prices will inevitably continue to rise. Of course, old coins are a finite market, and those remaining high grade coins drawn out of trading "circulation" by serious collectors, who will not trade further, will further reduce the available stock of quality items. It seems to me that it's more important than ever to get your hands on as high grade coin as possible, whatever your particular era and/or denomination of interest. Get them while you can. Let's hope that our market is not take over by the American market, nor that it goes the same way. Otherwise prices really will rocket.

I might get a 1972, Peck. They are after all the only examples for that year. My sentiments exactly, and most of the pre 1984 sets seem to have tarnished quite badly, espcially the 1973 with that dark red surround.

Thanks for the advice, chaps. I really appreciate it. I'm very much a novice where bun pennies are concerned. Probably I'd do well at a theory test, but need a practical to build my confidence in this very popular and expensive numismatic area.

There is a 1904 obv 2a, and it is shown in the link in post No 1 of this thread. It was discovered by Dave Webb of e bay "one webby" fame, and he's currently got one up there as a buy it now for £500.

I tend to agree with your points, Peck, but the only one of that motley collection which I have, is the 1970. Modern collector issues from the Royal Mint, are way too contrived for my liking.

Ditto the wartime 1918KN penny, probably the poorest quality striking of all the 20th C bronze coins, almost impossible to find better than fine, dye cracks and flaws ++, and weird colour ?low tin I've never seen one in better than Fine. Never seen a 1926ME in better than VF. I'd like to think unc examples exist somewhere.

I tend to agree with your collecting criteria, Red. I have got all the pennies from 1902 onwards, including the obvious variants such as 1926ME, 1918/19H & KN etc'. But I tend to concentrate on quality, rather than variety, and will shortly make a start my bun penny collection ~ a very long, arduous and expensive roads to be sure. I'm relishing the prospect I also follow the varieties that are listed in Spink et al. Oddly enough my coin yearbook, lists such exotic varieties as 1862, 8 over 6, 1864 plain 4 and crosslet 4, 1882, no H. But it does not list 1879 narrow date ~ I agree with Peckris on this. It is a very obvious variety, and hits you in the eye, even on worn examples.

I do so agree. Many of the so-called 'key dates' aren't rare at all, as they were all hoovered up between 1967 and 1971. They may be rare in the highest grades and always were, but in lower grades they are often more common than some quite 'ordinary' dates. I wish some enterprising group or individual would undertake a survey among dealers and collectors to establish the comparative rarity of predecimal dates. I've actually got an ordinary 1912 penny in GEF, which I bought from a stall on Chelmsford market in 1995 for just £2.50.

It could just be that Bun Britannia, which was notorious for not always being fully struck up. Plus the fact it's also got edge damage, as you and Peter have pointed out.

Sure, and that's a good point, too. And I don't want to anthropomorphize things--I mean, it's just a disk of metal with a design pressed into it. The ones I find a little harder to understand are the high-grade circulated coins, the ones that hit the street and then something happened to them. You can't really attribute their survival to either luck or design easily. Either someone set it aside deliberately (whether planning to spend it later or actually conserve it) or it was a stored coin spent well after it's minting date that someone noticed and promptly took right back out of circulation, probably. Or something. I mean, just going through my pocket change right now, by pure chance I have both 1963 and 1963-D cents. I wouldn't feel guilty calling either one of them Fine to F/VF. Heck, I was made the same year, and half the time I don't feel better than VG. Of course, it's a lot easier when you haven't had an obvious size/design/content change. I still pull wheat-back pennies from change every now and then, and it's not that uncommon to see a nickel dated in the 1940s or 1950s, and once in a great while you get a real stunner, like the Indian head cent I pulled from change once in the mid-1970s, nearly 70 years after they'd stopped being minted altogether. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for the Memorial back cents to disappear once the new permanent reverse design is released next year (last I saw, the one they were leaning toward is *not* impressive, though... *sigh*). It would be very interesting to know just how many were set aside deliberately, maybe even as part of a forming collection of then new coins, year by year. Or alternatively how many were simply lost to the system for many years, in some drawer, pocket or long discarded wallet/purse. The owner probably dead, and the item held Lord knows where for many decades. Maybe some were found whilst the type was still in circulation, spent again, circulated again for a while, then captured by the first coin enthusiast who noticed what good state they were still in, to be put aside again, this time permanently. Of course, we'll never ever know the history of any coin, but it still intrigues the hell out of me, as I sit and ponder individual pieces

Yes, agree with that wholeheartedly. Overall, I think it's a good product and I use it frequently, BUT, I don't like this 'best known in population' business and certainly not the price tag that goes with it. Let's face it, in most cases the total population in slabs is very small, often less than 10, some of the prices one sees for 'best known' say an UNC85 is sometimes twice that for an UNC80. Most of that price premium seems to be because it's the 'best known'. What, out of 10 they've slabbed, I don't think I care. I have also found that they only reply to emails when they want to. Another slight irritation is that of provenance. They are quick enough to list a coin as being ex London coins, but it seems if a coin comes from another dealer's auction, it is not deemed worthy of note and the field is left blank. I think it's fair to say that there is a business plan in place. It is, however, a very stiff test of a coins grade and they seem to be very consistent. I mainly get my pennies from two sources, one invariably comes back graded lower than the other source. Whatever else you may feel about them, they don't overgrade. and yet the 1869 farthing in the link, looks a tad overgraded to me. But maybe that's just me.

Coin cleaning is an art, and really one best avoided for the sake of your coins. It is very easy to make a mess of coin cleaning, as I once found out to my cost. Apart from surface grime, which can be removed via a damp cloth, any deeper cleaning can be injurious to your coins. Especially to be avoided (at all costs) is polishing. It's often better to have a slightly dirty coin, than a ruined one.

Irrespective of the precise grading, I just like the coin. They're not offered at that grade every 5 minutes, and it's got a very pleasing and attractive appearance. I'm strongly tempted to have a punt.

Although I do like high grade pieces, there's a lot in what you say If it ain't fun too, why bother doing it? Sure, I like the higher grades when I can get them, but a beat-up penny has lived. I've got a 1900 in hand right now, I'd honestly put it no higher than G-VG. And I can't help but wonder, whose pockets did it pass through? Did it come to America with a tourist, an emigrant, a doughboy coming home, a war bride like my great-aunt? How did it get to Ohio of all places? In comparison, a BU piece has a bright lustre, but a dull history. It got locked away and looked at. It never bought a piece of candy, or got tossed for heads or tails. Sure, I'd love to get my hands on some XF/AU/BU Victorias some day, but I'll always be a collector for the fun of it first. I can see where you are coming from with the worn but historied coins, but I like to look at a BU coin from say 100 years ago, and wonder where the heck it has been hiding all these years. Possibly stuck in a drawer somewhere, abandoned and forgotten, while all that history was going on around it.

Few too many proofs for my liking, but in mitigation, I love this 1919H penny on page 2.

Very lucky man. What a find after only 7 steps. Just shows what's possible with a metal detector. Note to self: buy one.