1949threepence

New purchases Pete?

Personally, for what it's worth, I think a realistic alternative to e bay would be a well policed auction/buy it now site, run along similar lines - but for coins only. Run by experts for beginners, more experienced enthusiasts and other experts. If staff knowledgeable about coins were running the site, it would discourage the fakers/piss takers, as they'd be caught out immediately. Listings could be for higher end coins, with the tat excluded, ie: anything below a certain standard will not be allowed*. Although exactly how the mechanics of that would work, I'm not sure. Like e bay, there isn't any reason why it couldn't be international. * unless a rarity

Item now withdrawn - result. ETA: apologies for repeating, Sword. Saw your post after this one.

Blatant fake being passed as the real thing

I did wonder about those thin rims. But was there ever any evidence of excess wear on reverse A as compared to reverse B?

Yes that's true. Fewer ghosting issues to boot. I wonder why they didn't just revert back to reverse A, rather than start the experiment with the recessed ear. I mean, surely they kept the die.

Just going back to this and relating to something I heard on the World Service a week or two back, when I woke up and couldn't get back off to sleep. I suddenly remembered it today, and thought I would investigate. Absolute sod to find, and copyright law is fiendishly complicated, but fortunately I did find a small paragraph in a wikipedia article which related back to the bit that I heard - the article is here It relates to the possibility of digitising written works being exempt from copyright law. Apologies if you already know and have discounted it. This is the extract:-

Cor blimey, guv. Stone the bleedin' crows. Where'd you spot that beauty?

Indeed. Going back to this question, I'm wondering to what extent Court's estimates on several early 20th century scarcities, are accurate. For those who are unaware, V.R.Court ran a short series of incredibly useful (and to this day still referred to) articles under the heading, "Major varieties of UK pennies 1902 to 1967", notably in the August and September 1972 editions of Coin Monthly. Court's opinion on the mintages for these varieties (pre melt), are as follows:- 1902 low tide = 1,212,600 (sounds about right) 1903 open 3 = 37,300 (possibly slight underestimate?) 1905 F160 = 3,231,350 (sounds about right) 1908 F164 = 1,166,550 (sounds about right) 1908 F164A = 55,550 (yes, but see F176) 1908 F165 = 3,370,000 (sounds about right) 1909 F169 = 23,200 (sounds about right) 1913 F175 = 1,733,500 (given current availability, maybe an over estimate, or just not collected) 1913 F176 = 948,750 (as above) 1915 rec ear = 5,404,200 (maybe over estimate) 1916 rec ear = 16,129,850 (sounds about right) 1918H = 2,465,658 (probably about correct, but reported degree of scarcity in the immediate pre -withdrawal period may have been due to collector uptake) 1918KN = 1,195,142 (as above) 1919H = 4,787,556 (probably about correct) 1919KN = 422,044 (as above) Mostly correct I'd say, but with a major discrepancy (in my view) between open 3 & 164A on the one hand, with F175 & F176, on the other. If Court's figures on the 175 & 176 are correct, then it would suggest the vast majority met their fate in the melt, having not been specifically collected, except by default. Actually, that could well be the case given that there are a fair number of the extant population of 175's and 176's that are in high grade, whereas conversely that is manifestly not the case for the open 3 and the 164A. Post melt, probably all four types are of roughly comparable rarity.

I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. Paypal may be convenient but they're a lousy outfit who effectively abuse their decent customers with extremely poor customer service and now this. The conclusion has to be that you can't trust them to back you up in the event of a problem not of your making. If there were some way round never using them, I'd take it.

Well you say that, but with regard specifically to 1913, the Britannia strike seems to be variable. My 174 is fully struck up, whereas my 177 has a poor breastplate. Both have good hair detail.

I thought it was pronounced "feng shway".

You often see evidence of a die clash at the front of the Queen's neck. Common area for it.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

It was a nifty bit of work you did to get the relevant images isolated and the right way up, Richard.

Indeed. Somebody's fallen for it, He even got the grade wrong as it's NVF at best. Sadly, there really are some naive buyers out there. Mind, this guy's got form as you probably already know. With regard to your other link, I wish the damn things were the right way up, but the one in the corner has the tell tale tall helmet plume. If the obverse in the same place matches, which I think it does, somebody's nabbed themselves a F76. Nice one. Again, it was recognised, as nobody would surely pay that much for the remainder of the tat.

Yep, the number of times I've sent a follow up one word text to correct an auto "correct" that slipped in while I was busy typing the main text.

Very interesting Chris, and thanks for the info. Obviously, as you sort of indicate above, for the very rarest coins, it's almost impossible to obtain an example above fine anyway. In some cases, such as the F90 or F169, and with the exception of one, the F164A also, they simply don't exist in the known population. Truly BU pennies before 1883, are very few and far between, even for the "common" years. Mostly we have to settle for GEF with some residual lustre.

I don't think the F74 is a proof, nor was ever intended to be. Rather it is an intentional specimen, as opposed to an early strike from new polished dies. The following description accompanied the Copthorne example:- Anyway, here it is. It is an exceptionally good strike, especially to the obverse. But lacks any indication whatever of it being a proof.

Not to worry. Got a pretty good idea from the above anyway.

I can see that the fields are smooth and the strike very sharp. Are you able to take a picture now?

Looking through the list of dealers in last year's Coin Yearbook, I can only find two in Hertfordshire itself:- M.G.Coins & Antiquities, 12 Mansfield, High Wych CM12-OJJ - Tel 01279 721719 David Miller Coins and Antiquities, PO Box 711 Hemel Hempstead, HP2 4UH - Tel 01442 251492 Although plenty in adjacent and nearby counties, Essex, Berkshire, Bucks, Cambs, Oxfordshire, Surrey and Northants. Hope this helps. If you order a 2020 coin yearbook from Token Publishing, you'll be able to see them all. Available as an e version or hard copy.

Re: bit in bold - actually, depending on how in depth you go, that is pretty much spot on. Welcome to the forum, enjoy the experience, and please don't be shy of asking any questions.

Good points Jerry. Logically, you're spot on. Maybe the wide rim is a bit of an erroneous red herring.

Pics, Chris?