£400 for a Penny ?

I think it's a job for a 19 year old corner shop assistant, not a vending machine.

It's a shocker for sure.

Have you been here ? http://www.forgerynetwork.com/Default.aspx

Oh dear ! Rather dry I would have thought ? Meaning no reference to Mr Marsh's style....

Seems I may owe you a pint my friend. Took me a week or two to digest this information, I've looked into it now and discover that my 'spare' (which I was about to give away) is in fact a first edition and there is one on ebay, signed admittedly, for £400 !! So, no, Az you can't have it

There are a few resident farthing experts who will doubtless be along in a minute with a definitive opinion, but I think you may do rather better than £20 ?

I have an opinion on this. where I come out, is that it is best to say nothing because one never knows who's watching.'IF' it were to be a fake and 'IF' the wrong person WAS watching and someone came on and pointed out where the forger had made a mistake, then they'd get better wouldn't they ? And whatever else we might be, we ain't stupid and we're not going to teach someone how to rip us off. These are my thoughts.

£140 per Metric Tonne (1000 Kilos)

I would contend that this has been cleaned, fairly roughly as well. As to grade, the hair around the temple region has been worn flat, I would struggle to go more than a strong VF. Rgds,

Following on from Gary's aquisition of the 1909 'dot' penny, I thought I would start a thread on dots. I've got an 1891 with a random dot, here it is - to the left of the trident. Sorry about the crappy photo, coins in slabs aren't easy (no slab bashing on this thread please ) Now I know what I think, but I thought I'd ask the question, are these dot's of significance or aren't they ?

The craziness in the coin market isn't solely to do with slabs, it appears to be quite random - then again if it was predictable it wouldn't be crazy I suppose. I wouldn't of thought that a British coin in an American slab would attract any kind of premium and I also think that the sovereign is one of least suited coins for slabbing as a lot of the protective benefits offered aren't necessary what with gold being a noble metal - as long as you don't scratch them you can keep them where you like. I also think that you're doing the right thing choosing to collect sovereigns as a relative newcomer. If there is such a thing as a beginners coin, it is the Sov, because one is always insulated against mistakes by the underlying gold price. If you took out a hammer and battered it flat, it would still be worth £170 odd, so the margin for grading trial and error is so much less than on a base metal coin. You will know yourself that the young head shieldback carries a premium on top of the gold price in any condition, roughly £20, so £190/£200 is your starting point and I would say for £242 you have done OK, perhaps in the cold light of morning, I would downgrade it a fraction, the reverse is very much better than the obverse. That said, the grade should be your driver before price, although obviously price is a factor, it is just that there is a mountain of material in the market in VF and below. Top grade Sov's are harder to get hold of, but there's a reason for that. It's great that you have Marsh and also good to come on here and ask questions. The sovereign is a very rewarding coin in every way, when I started collecting them you could pick up a younghead for £70, best of luck with them. Rgds,

That's interesting Scott, but I haven't got any 2008's to compare it with. Is it a rarity or do all 2008's have no dot ?

So I think we all basically agree, dots which are not a constituent part of the design and that are accidents of wear, are of no significance. However, it doesn't finish there because it does seem to matter where the accident has happened. If it's in the fields like mine, then no-one is interested, if it's within the legend, there appear to be some folk who find this more exciting. If you look at the 1909, it's clear to see that it's not intentional, if it was, it would be at the foot of the N not the top. So is it attracting value because it's being passed off as intentional, an integral part of the design ? I guess so. And certainly if one in fine fetched £300 then I would turn that 1909 around pronto, who knows what it might fetch.

Hello Darren, I haven't been paying close attention (a fact that has infuriated many a teacher and spouse down the years) but did I see in another post by you another sovereign ? If it's sovereigns you're interested in, you really need a copy of the standard refernce on the things, which is 'Marsh', I've got a spare copy if you want it. As for that coin, tha American grading companies use something called the Sheldon scale, it's all a bit subjective, but it does look a better sort of EF to my eye. Gold is such a soft metal that the detail around the queens temple wears so quickly. Rgds,

The only area I'm advanced in is the size of my stomach, but I only collect about uncircultated pennies with as much lustre as possible, and I mean as much as possible and if it's not quite there, then I don't buy it. I am very comfortable with holes in my collection, they don't stress me. Hasn't always been this way, I came into the hobby via a Piedfort silver proof £1 over ten years ago, collected them for a year or so, then saw them for what they were, collected sovereigns as I gradually became more confident spending larger sums of money, then I flirted with hammered gold before realising that I could never afford that and finally settled on bronze pennies because they have everything; 1. They are the coin of the people and have much history. 2. In full lustre they match gold for appearance. 3. They are an interesting series with great, large portraiture. 4. A normal person can afford them, mostly. 5. They are plentiful(ish) To be honest, I've never been interested whether the tip of the trident points to a tooth or a gap, I'm not really a numismatist, more of a fine art collector but in coins. I've got an (A) collection and a B collection, but the B collection isn't very big - a dozen pennies or so, where I either made a mistake or was inpatient. I do exactly what you did on that big table, the difference is, I can do it on my desk. Only my 1915 isn't uncirculated with MOY lustre and I haven't bought a coin so far this year. I have a fund, a penny fund and I wait. I need 6 pennies in tip top to sign off 1900-1936 by year and not type (type is optional I'm the sole judge of whether I should or should not have a KN or H or ME for instance) I can ignore type if I want to, but not an example of date. These are my rules. I have 3 pre 1900's and part of me dreads finishing the post 1900 series, even a complete date run in UNC with lustre might not be achievable now. So I wait, Declan, I wait. I bid £25 for that lovely 1910 (which I didn't need and didn't win, but look at it) so £25 goes into the fund and I wait. I've got nothing but admiration for what the likes of you and Scott do, you're much more useful to the hobby than me, but we each must be to our own. I'm currently practising breathing through my ears - aids waiting evidently, haven't quite mastered it yet. Rgds,

We're house sitting for the minor gentry this week, and they've got this long thin table in their huge kitchen. As soon as I saw it I thought "ooh look, denominations down the short dimension, dates on the long dimension, I could get my whole collection on that" Well it took a bit more than an evening, but I did manage it... Right hand side of the table is 1967 in the foreground back to 1908 at the far end, so you can see the gap for 1961 ha'penny, and 1954-1960 pennies, and the missing larger denominations for 1952. There's a row for every year on the right hand side, but I had to compress it a lot to fit the 19th century on the left hand side Left hand side of the table is early stuff in the foreground (you can see the 1797 twopenny) going back to 1907 at the far end. Farthings in the middle of the table, big silver at the edge. Hours of fun. Now that's what I call a table. I could have half a dozen perpetually unfinished projects on the go at the same time on there...

Yes, it should be of grave concern to everyone and technological advances are only going to result in better fakes, it's not something which is going to go away. Dare I say it, it's another compelling reason to use third party grading services, as they guarantee the market price for anything that goes into one of their slabs if it subsequently turns out to be a fake.

Do you remember my first post when you joined ? Why do you ask ?

Welcome Frank. Not an expert on this, or anything else for that matter, but it may well be that you have a penny from the Norman era (1066-1154) there. It certainly looks to be the right kind of 'foot' to the cross. However, I think I might just be able to make out the remains of the design in the fields which could make it a penny of Henry II (1154-1189). If I'm right, that would be worth about £75 in that condition. To be certain, you'd need to take it in to a dealer, but then you already knew that. Maybe someone else will have a more informed opinion, if they do, I'm thinking Spink 1337-1339 ? Keep drinking the cider.

"Brown EF" ??? That's a new one on me. Oh, and if that's EF, then I'm quite good looking...

I've just fished out the London Coins catalogue and it was estimated at £5K-£15K Don't know what a 1933 would go for, it seems to be particularly obscure (and to me too uninteresting) micro varieties in shocking condition that are attracting all the interest, so maybe it wouldn't blow the nutter's hair back ? Fortunately, so far anyway, I haven't noticed any price creep getting through to dealers lists, it just seems to be the auction houses.

It's bulging eyed, blancmange brained insanity. It makes one wonder if there is someone putting together an investment portfolio of coins for some Sheikh or other, who clearly doesn't mind stringing his employer along. These prices CANNOT be true market value.

Well. interestingly, but still absurdly, CGS value coin No 8218 at £25,000. Maybe even they are embarrassed ?

Behind you 100%

Silver is not my thing so I'm not sure what my opinion is worth. It would in a funny kind of way be comforting to think WW were pulling our legs, but they're not. Mad, mad prices are being paid (at auction) for what I would consider junk, however rare it may be. This is happening too often now, there is someone behind it, has to be the same person or persons. Somebody out there knows what's going on.....