£400 for a Penny ?

On the door mat this week, my copy of CCGB (very easy to use, like it) and my 1932 penny (very nice) returned from CGS UK. CCGB value in UNC/BU - £35/£45 CGS UNC 80 - Value £200 Thoughts appreciated.

I wish you hadn't put that up, now I want one. I seem to want everything everyone shows This is my take on it: There are two types of copper oxide: copper (I) oxide and copper (II) oxide. Copper (I) oxide is referred to as cuprous oxide, while copper (II) oxide is known as cupric oxide. I'm not a metalurgist, but my understanding is that type one (CU2O) is formed from exposure to air and moisture and produces the more often seen toning and taken to extreme's, verdigris, wheras type two (CUO) is blackish and can be caused by exposure to heat. So, my vote is that this very nice penny you have here is oxidised with CUO. Jumping in my time machine, I can see a peasants croft with smoke curling up into the night air from a log burning stove. Inside, 4 friends are playing cards, one spots this penny and thinks "ooh, a new penny, I must save that for little joe" and reaching out, he put's it to one side, on the stove.....

In response to a google search, is the £5 coin legal tender: Yes, the five pound coin (crown) is legal tender in the United Kingdom in values up to any amount. Despite being fully legal tender the five pound coin (crown) will often be refused in shops simply because it is not commonly seen in circulation. The reason for this is that though coin is of a standard size and weight it has no standard face designs, the coins are always of a commemorative nature and so are often kept away in private collections. There is no way to force an individual to accept any form of payment, including legal tender. Transactions in the UK are always a mutual agreement between two parties. The Post Office have stated that they are happy to receive the coin as payment for goods and services. A bank should also be able to exchange the coin for change or a banknote, or you can deposit it into an account. Right, deep breath, and off to the bank....

So... a 1935 penny with ghosting. Well I never! How much is that worth? Don't bait the man so soon after dinnertime... Have to say that I have mellowed on streaky lustre, rainbow toning and even a 'well done' fingerprint can be attractive on the right coin.

Just checked on a historic inflation calculator. In 1930, 2/6d, equated to £5.83 today. So a halfcrown then was worth considerably more than twice a £2.00 coin is today. How long before the first £5.00 coin ? You certainly can't seem to get a new £5.00 note for love nor money these days (no pun intended)

Maybe the 'small head' didn't crack ghosting after all and that is why subsequent portraiture is so disappointing - well, in my opinion it is..... I shall have to keep an eye out for an example - good spot Sir.

Well now, look at that ? Never seen that before - now I want one.

Just 1921-26 ? Here's a 1919.....

Is it just me, or do 'Exotic Fish' not sit comfortably with the rest ? I'm 44 Mat. Started collecting coins about 10 years ago. Took my 3 young sons to Ibitha and we had a salt pool. As one of my objectives at the time was to get everyone comfortable in water, I invented a game whereby I took all the shrapnel out of my pocket, took all the 1 Euro pieces out save one and chucked it in the pool. The game was then, whoever could dive down and 'find the Euro' won. The water got whipped to a foam and we had to play it 24/7. Over the course of the week, the salt in the pool cleaned the coins and I got more and more interested in how a 20 cent piece from Ireland came to be in Ibitha, or how each country chose to depict itself etc, etc I'd studied History and Economics and in that week it all came together in coins. Been obsessed ever since.

Let's see if I have pulled it off....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is worth £200, but they are, in isolation to all those around it which are worth between £40-60. And I'm a bit perplexed because nowhere does it say 1932 is extraordinary in any way and it is a 'bog standard' Freeman 207 too, nothing 'funky' about it. Just wondered if I was missing something. A pic will stretch my technical capabilities, but that in itself is no bad thing, I shall try.... As far as the 1934 is concerned, one does encounter coins from a mint darkened year with some lustre occasionally, apparently due to the coins being stuck together when the 'hypo' was applied. Freeman states that all 1934 coins were mint darkened, so if you have one with some lustre, I'd say that was a good find. I think I read somewhere that unlike the later mint darkening of George VI which, as you know, had it's roots in the alloy composition, the 1934 was treated by the mint as they had conducted a survey on circulated pennies and had discovered that shiny new ones were being hoarded and they didn't want this for some reason ? Personally, I find them a complete turn off and only have a single specimen in my collection. I don't have a 1934 and I've never looked for one so I'm not talking from experience when I say that I'm guessing a 1934 in really mint state might be harder to find simply because the collectors of yesteryear may have felt the same way I do and the Mint achieved it's objective ? I'd be interested to see it though ? You show me yours, and I'll show you mine

Well, I don't know if that is what they would pay for it, I suspect not, but it is what the website says the value is according to them for this individual coin. The population report is, I believe 2nd out of about 7. I paid £80 for it from a certain Gentleman in Notting Hill. As you may know, he doesn't grade anything above AU so BU it isn't, 'cos BU doesn't really exist for old pennies in the truest sense of the word, but it is very nice - it's what I would accept as BU. Sheldon ? Well (here I make the horse noise with my lips) earlier I posted an NGC64 RD as UNC 82 ??? Just seems such a big difference of opinion, no other 'ordinary' penny in that reign seems to be worth more than £60 (1913) and wondering if, like the 1915 and 16 it is actually rarer on the ground in tip top than billed ? Still got nowhere near a BU 15/16, my Avatar is the closest and that's nicely toned but miles off. Rgds.

My experience is that they do have 'off' days. I send a few pieces in to be graded and slabbed and then I keep them, 'cos they're mine , but I have picked up a few on the secondary market and I am beginning to form the opinion that a % of the stuff available on the secondary market has issues - maybe that's why they are back out for sale ? Their archival photography has stepped up a few levels quite recently though and it is now much easier to see what is going on than before, fair play. I recently sent in an NGC MS64 which came back UNC82. Right where it should be I guess. I also have an UNC82, from the secondary market (ebay) which I don't like at all and have now replaced and will be moving on - damn, I was going to keep that a secret.... Generally speaking though, and I guess I have 40 pieces graded by CGS, I only have a problem with the 1. The rest have been graded very strictly and fairly. The way it should be.

Another, this time in Waitrose, and I have to say, in rotten condition already, has some kind of mange....

My concern, as they have already given in to pressure to change their EF75/78 to AU 75/78 is that the removal of the traditional grades altogether MIGHT be a prelude to a softening of standards. It could be that the removal of the distinction between aUNC and UNC might blur as a result of the traditional grades being removed and we might experience 'Grade Creep' i.e. more coins making it to higher numbers. I have no evidence to suggest that this will happen, or to doubt the integrity of the company, but I am curious as to the motivation behind the move and try as I may, I can't see it in a positive light. It's a good product, why tamper with it ? My thoughts, for what they are worth.

Have you contracted Verdigris overnight, or is that Envy - an original sin I believe ? I think a lot of people cut their teeth in coins of this period, it is after all easier to understand what is going on. I believe in time, those cleaned coins will surely be passed on ?

The thing with something like that these days Sharl, is that there are so many fakes and dodgy dealings that most people wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. It MIGHT be what is termed an 'off metal strike' but it might well be some kind of reproduction. If you have £10 to spare you could send it to one of the third party grading company's, they will assess if it is genuine and if it is, encapsulate it. THEN the rest of us will believe it's real - and probably not before ? That's what I would do anyway

[i wondered this at the time. In January they made a big fuss about the competition results and we'd all have to wait a couple of months to see the new designs... so I was quite surprised to see 2008 coins with the old designs turning up in change. I didn't think they would bother.

I'm sensing you're not a fan of the 'London Mint' Another thing about the 'goings on' at the Royal Mint, why did they feel it was necessary to issue 3.9m pound coins with the Royal Arms on in 2008, prior to issuing 29.4m of the new Dent design ? There is no evidence that there was an emergency in terms of supply. They have never done this before in 26 years, why not just wait until the new coins were ready like they've always done ?

McDonalds, Sainsburys,Tesco,Waitrose and Boots... Interesting. Anyone got one from the 'corner shop' ? It won't be mine - it's in a Mylar Flip.

I watched the barman in my local check every single 20p he gave out as change the other night. I was kind of thinking that interest from the USA was behind the prices fetched on ebay ? I have no way of checking, but is it not the case that 'errors' in circulating coinage have a much bigger following over in the States than perhaps they do here ? The hysteria does seem to be gradually abating.....

2009 Penny in Boots the Chemist.

Nothing here yet, but I am getting on peoples nerves going through their change with a fine tooth comb. Fake £1's, error 20p's, 2009 issue..... Been poking around trying to find some information on exactly how the Mint measure the coins in circulation. Anybody know of any good reference works on the science of physical money supply in a modern economy ? http://www.royalmint.com/Corporate/facts/circulation.aspx

Rayner has this to say about the Cromwell coinage: "Most authorities consider that these pieces were never put into circulation and must, therefore, be classed as patterns. In the writers view, however, the rare halfcrowns of 1656 appear to have been circulated as they nearly always turn up in worn condition. The coins of 1658 were probably intended for circulation but most of them were not issued owing to the death of Cromwell before they were ready." I think in the light of Thomas Simon's subsequent behaviour in the reign of Charles II, the pattern argument is very compelling ? Even were this not the case, I think it is hard to see Cromwell as a Commoner - he did after all refuse the Crown and was head of state at the time when there was no relevant Royalty in England. So, having slept on it, I vote for Churchill as the ONLY commoner to appear on our official circulating coinage. Then there are countermarked Charles IIII Dollars issued by the Bank of England, how do they feature in the debate ? OK, he isn't a commoner, but he has no interest in the British Crown, yet there he is on our circulating coinage....... The reason I mentioned the Northumberland Shilling is that isn't there some controversy about the effigy of George III in that some say the main driver behind the issue was Elizabeth, Duchess of Northumberland, known to have been a collector and an authority on medals, and that the effigy bears more of a resemblance to her husband than it does to the King ?