£400 for a Penny ?

Right. It was a bit like staring at one of those pictures composed out of dots and suddenly it leaps out at you. However, they are both 5's are they not ?

As this thread is now nothing to do with coins, I'll chuck this into the mix. An illustration of the problems we face is the driving licence. I passed my test many years ago and am automatically able to drive any vehicle, in any combination of pieces (i.e. trailed) up to 8.5 tonnes, no questions asked. My licence was issued (I think) up until the age of 75. My son passed his test after 1997 and is only entitled to drive a car, nothing else. If he wants to drive the rugby clubs minibus, he has to take a test and apply for a licence. If he wants to use a trailer, he has to take a test and apply for a licence. He also has to renew his licence every 5 years and so do I now. All at a cost of course, because the DVLA need to have jobs, don't they ? Not fair for them to not have jobs. And that principle pervades every industry in the UK - you can't work unless you pay me first...

Someone's just lost £229 then

Wankers with leveraged positions trading money that doesn't exist in some kind of 'game' that no-one fully understands.

You have had a modicum of abuse ? Be fair.

I accept most of what you say chaps, as valid - without necessarily agreeing with it all, but from my perspective the real damage was done by investment bankers playing games with contracts for difference, short selling etc, games in which they had no idea what the outcome might be. Yes, the underlying social and economic situation was not good and it still isn't and in my opinion we have only just begun to address it by hopefully culling 500,000 'free jobs', but the roots of the whole debacle can be traced back to leaving the Gold Standard. The Gold Standard was dropped basically because it prevented the American dream which has now been proven to be a nightmare. China, Russia, India and Brazil will pick up the pieces and be the world leaders from this point, whether America can stomach that remains to be seen. Heavy stuff for a Sunday morning....

Have we switched to shield backs ? Hold on (thumbs his Macdonald) there are two with WW either raised or incuse and in aUNC in 2002 they were $750 AUS. Both the same. From which we can deduce that the George & Dragon is the one you want.

Stick it up when it arrives and we'll have a look at it. As a general principle though, I think one has to be dreaming in this day and age, if one thinks one has found a bargain online. Strong chance that what you paid for it is about what it's worth minus 15% or so when talking about Sov's. Whatever the books say.

If you're talking Aussie coins, you need a 'Macdonald' - Greg Macdonald. My copy is a bit out of date, but I presume he's still going. In the 10th edition (Nov 2002), he gives mintage figures of 2,184,000 in total for Sov's (be aware that there are concurrent Shield and St George reverses running from 1871 to 1887). For this coin he gives the following values; Fine:$200 AUS, VF:350, EF:1500, aUNC:1500, Unc: 5500, Choice Unc:8000, Gem:11,000, Proof:50,000 1871 is the first coin of the series and in VF (which yours might be) it is the 3rd rarest of the sequence. I have some experience of the market in Oz - I used to get a load of stuff sent over 10 years ago or so, interest in the 'old stuff' has always been high because so little of it survives. It would seem that in the intervening eight years since I last looked, Aussie collectors have heated the market up quite a bit. Flog it on ebay Australia mate.

I would see this as a protest at the Public Order Act of 1936, which came into force in 1937. Oswald Mosely and his 'Blackshirts' were effectively banned and although this is not the symbol of the British Union of Fascists, I see it quite clearly as an act of fascist protest. Not really to do with the war I don't think. Don't worry about being on topic, feel free to ramble all over the shop, we do.

With the mess we've made of the economy, it's hard to see any bullion price returning to those levels in our lifetime. On the subject of the economic mess, I was reading that a million $ packed really tightly into a brick of $100 notes would rise approximately four and a half inches off the table in front of you. Want to guess how high the repayment we and our children have to make would rise off the table in front of you ? I'll tell you. 71 miles.

Looks perhaps like it might have spent a little time in the ground ?

Interesting. I can get there in one less generation - discovered my GRANDFATHER being 17 years old in the 1891 census and I'm only halfway through my forties.

I enjoyed it.

Well, hello right back at you, Dave....

Whack it on Fleabay, starting price 99p and watch what happens. It either will or it won't.

I think you have probably called that right. You can clearly see the Y and the rim of the coin that did the damage. Perhaps it failed to come cleanly off the die after striking and was still on the die when the next strike was made ?

+ 1

Well played, Mrs Peter.

Are you feeling ok ??

No Sir, not I.

The man is a complete twat.

I'm probably being remarkably obtuse, but I have no idea what you are talking about my man...

Erm, where am I supposed to be looking ? Sorry.....

Yeah, a decent numismatic library is as much an investment as the coins themselves. Provided Spink don't embark on a re-printing spree......