Peckris

That gets a grade of 67 (/70) ??? How ?????? Whoever affixed that label that says "CAC" is telling no lie...

It's the hardest bun penny in UNC, or so it's reckoned in some quarters. Wow, that beats my VF 1903 halfcrown for £26 from an American dealer!

Aaaargh. I was so busy I missed the item I was watching. And it went for £10 less than I was prepared to pay too. (Kicks self around kitchen).

Yes, that's the normal colour of a coin that's been buried a long time. Ignore the hype of eBay sellers - they will claim all kinds of weird and wonderful things as "rare", "unique", etc. The recut of dates was usually done on the final figure of the date, as the date punches for the dies were either 18-- (last two digits blank), or created for a decade, like 186-. When it came to the final digit on the dies, yes they would punch them in individually, which is why you see such a variety of spacings and angles of final digit. This is especially true for 1861 and 1862, which was a combination of 1) the early days of bronze coinage production and 2) very high mintages (which was also the case in 1863, then it tailed off dramatically). Bottom line - a recut 1 over 1 on a particular die for this particular date is not terribly exciting though it is interesting if you collect such things. A worn one for £26 obviously attracted one such collector, so if you put yours on eBay you might attract another, who knows? There's a lot of odd spacings on the 1864 as well, especially the crosslet. Many of the wider spaced 4's are barely visible. Wouldn't surprise me - except you don't usually see enough 1864s side by side to make that comparison.

My guess is that an engraver was a middle man 'paid' for his expertise 'no questions asked'. The counterfeiter would then use the die to mint forged coins. It may actually not have been illegal to make the dies, only to use them? (Guessing here).

Unfortunately, the Labour Party in Westminster would die, as there are a disproportionate number of Scotsmen among them. We'd be saddled with the self-serving disgrace to humanity aka the Tory Party forever more. Nothing unfortunate about that. And there are plenty of self-serving disgraces in all political parties. Let's not get into a political argument. I was brought up from the cradle that morality and human values count for more than acquisition and personal wealth, but I acknowledge that not everyone agrees. Indeed, but the things you list are not mutually exclusive and none of them are the responsibility of government. No, not the responsibility, you're quite right about that. But some people over the years have attributed more of the 'abstract idealism' values to the Liberal and Labour Parties respectively, where they attribute to the Tories more of the 'traditional values of Church, State, and business'. Bottom line? I've met many many many nice people who've surprised me when I found they voted Conservative; but I've never (in my lifetime) encountered a Tory Party policy that stood for putting other people ahead of their core values of wealth and self interest. On the other hand, there was Disraeli... if he were alive today, would he find a natural home in today's Tory Party? Now there's a subject for debate, if you like

Sorry, I was talking about pictures of your 1887 crown (which has a milled edge, I think?) - do you have pictures of the edge/rim/teeth for that, which would help determine if it's a proof?

Unfortunately, the Labour Party in Westminster would die, as there are a disproportionate number of Scotsmen among them. We'd be saddled with the self-serving disgrace to humanity aka the Tory Party forever more. Nothing unfortunate about that. And there are plenty of self-serving disgraces in all political parties. Let's not get into a political argument. I was brought up from the cradle that morality and human values count for more than acquisition and personal wealth, but I acknowledge that not everyone agrees.

Thanks for the pic - unfortunately I wasn't able to resize it on Flickr, I only had that small picture to view. TBH there's not a lot I can tell from that, but a closer view of the border teeth might help.

Unfortunately, the Labour Party in Westminster would die, as there are a disproportionate number of Scotsmen among them. We'd be saddled with the self-serving disgrace to humanity aka the Tory Party forever more.

If it's FDC then it should be fairly obvious - the fields will be mirror like, and the design will have an element of frosting by comparison. The other element you should check - whether or not it's FDC - is the edge/rim: it will be crisp, sharp even, and the teeth will all be a uniform size and length; there won't be an area of weakness there. What you should beware is that there are many many examples of 'early strikes' of 19th Century silver, where the fields are mirrored and the design crisp. Some of these may even have been struck using proof dies but non-proof blanks. Because they were only single-struck, and won't have the proof rim/edge/teeth, they are readily classifiable as non-proofs to the experienced eye.

GO to the Beginners Forum READ the Stickie there on the subject of posting pictures. You CAN post pictures here.

I am certainly not an Obama fan, but to be truthful the"saving" of the Turkeys by a U.S. President has been done annually ever since I can remember, and that goes back to FDR! Obama is just continuing the tradition. Ha,Ha! I have even heard some Americans refer to Obama as a turkey! LOL! They live in Montana, and practice rifle drill every morning at dawn before crawling back into their nucular bunkers, say the 7 Commandments to JEEzussss, before continuing to plot the overthrow of Big Government, right? (No stereotypes please, we're British ) Could be Peck, but to be honest, Montana is one of the few states I have never visited, so I can't be sure! LOL!

I am certainly not an Obama fan, but to be truthful the"saving" of the Turkeys by a U.S. President has been done annually ever since I can remember, and that goes back to FDR! Obama is just continuing the tradition. Ha,Ha! I have even heard some Americans refer to Obama as a turkey! LOL! They live in Montana, and practice rifle drill every morning at dawn before crawling back into their nucular bunkers, say the 7 Commandments to JEEzussss, before continuing to plot the overthrow of Big Government, right? (No stereotypes please, we're British )

Just what I was thinking. As far as I can remember I first went to Seaby's in 1963 as my father's runner, he bought much of his stock from them. They regularly trusted this spotty teenage oik with largeish parcels of coin to take back on the tube to West London, and then return days later with grubby pound notes in exchange. Collectors in their late 50's - 60's will remember when quality coins were relatively cheap in the context of everyday living costs, even gold sovs were fairly reasonable. It seems now that a well presented coin, say VF or better, fetches disproportionately more than 40 years ago; even coins with a large well attested mintage. Five years ago I decided not to play any more. I still have my Gun Money and Thaler collections, but for fun and profit I now choose to play with tokens and medals. Nothing on the web about Seaby beginnings, unfortunately. But I thought I remembered (maybe wrongly) that the original Seaby began as a Spink employee? And Spink themselves claim to go back to the 17th Century as coin dealers.

They are all suspect to wall bidding, but as Rob points out, low ball bids can also be effective. If you can watch/bid/listen live the. You also have a chance to NOT bid as the case was at the last DNW sale where a majority of coins went stratospheric and so when you actually got back up from Fällung on you back at the opening price it was already gone at 5-10 times estimate. The next 2 Sales at Londons and DNW will be interesting, but i still won't bid on Londons for 2 reasons, conflict of interest (CGS& Londons) plus no live bidding which for a major auction house like Londons is pretty much behind the times Fällung? Who's Fällung when he's at home?

That's a beauty for the price!! Well spotted. My UK 1806 cost me far more than that, and that was back in the 90s. Thank goodness I'm not the only one then! From Rob's comments above, it seemed that the 'average' 'middle ground' collector would casually spend £1k per coin. From what I've seen, there are members here who would and do, and good luck to them, but we're not all in the same boat. No, I'm being taken out of context here. The middle ground covers those who would spend more on a coin than as if they were just buying a packet of fags or a bottle of Coke. i.e. spending more than just pence on washers, but not in a position to spend as much as it takes to win the lot irrespective of cost. The bit above didn't say they would always spend £1K on a coin, just that they might do so in the normal course of events. You don't spend hundreds if you can get something for £50, similarly you don't spend thousands when hundreds will suffice. It's also allowed to spend pence on a coin. If you spend a hundred or two rather than thousands, it still puts you in the middle ground - after all, you are spending ten, twenty, thirty times or more than someone who will only spend a few pounds or less on 'principle'. Frequency of purchases also comes into the equation. 10 purchases of £100 by a 'poor' middle ground person is no different to a single £1K purchase by a 'rich' person of the same group, just they have different priorities. Fair point.

Does that make me part of the 10% that normally agrees with a bit of what you say, Dave? Or the 10% that from time to time agrees with much of what you say? Or am I part of the 90% that occasionally doesn't agree with much of what you say? Or the 90% that normally doesn't agree with a bit of what you say ... ? :lol:P Sorry Peck. Could you put that all into PowerPoint pie chart for me, because I'm lost otherwise! Maybe bagpipes in the background and a Venn diagram would help too ... or maybe I just need a glass of Scotch. Could I get Desperate Dan to put it into a PowerPie for you instead?

Thank goodness I'm not the only one then! From Rob's comments above, it seemed that the 'average' 'middle ground' collector would casually spend £1k per coin. From what I've seen, there are members here who would and do, and good luck to them, but we're not all in the same boat.

Oh, no, curry surely? If you like turkey curry sandwiches, who am I to naysay you?

Does that make me part of the 10% that normally agrees with a bit of what you say, Dave? Or the 10% that from time to time agrees with much of what you say? Or am I part of the 90% that occasionally doesn't agree with much of what you say? Or the 90% that normally doesn't agree with a bit of what you say ... ?

PER COIN????

Enjoy the next six weeks of turkey sandwiches

EF-GEF for me, too much wear on the hair and braid for higher That was a poorly designed obverse, that final one - even UNC specimens don't have the best hair detail. But that one has very definite wear on the hair that crosses the laurel wreath immediately behind the ear. Not UNC, definitely not.