Peckris

Got any pictures? I'd be interested to see those! (Actually, my 1926 is strangely yellow on the obverse - full lustre.) It has got to be to do with the precise alloy used, hasn't it? I always thought Heaton's blanks come out looking blacker than the RM issues, and you see this especially on the 1912H and 1919H pennies. What would be fascinating is if the KN 'mix' turned out to be only very slightly different, but enough to cause the redness. On the other hand, being based in Birmingham, a city known for its engineering, metalwork and jewellery manufacture, as well as a certain stubborn refusal to bow down to the SE manadrins, it could well be that those at Kings Norton simply said "Don't tell us how to make bronze, laddie - we were doing it before the Romans arrived!"

My favourite coins (many of which aren't among my best, by some way) I would never want to part with, for all kinds of reasons including the sentimental. But I have others, which I wouldn't bat an eyelid about parting with. I kind of feel about them, "Ok, got that, seen the film, worn the T Shirt - what next?" Anyone else feel they could divide their collection in two : one lot that they'd never part with, the other that they could part with without too many qualms? And that the first lot doesn't necessarily include their finest specimens?

lol what's a 'Plattipus shiller'? Ask Dave - it's his favourite subject, and favourite person..

Yes indeed - Freeman mentions in his introduction that Kings Norton supplied blanks to the Royal Mint for the whole period from 1912 to 1919. I had often noticed that characteristic 'redness' on pennies of that period. Now I wonder if Freeman was too conservative - you see 'red' pennies quite commonly also between 1908 and 1910, and I wonder if KN supplied blanks for those too?

1. I don't think you will find many if at all on these forums 2. Grading isn't a precise science anyway - even professionals would differ by up to half a grade I do agree with your 'live and let live' attitude to slabs, but please don't assume that a professional grader is necessarily any better than a serious collector who's been learning it for years. Let me put it to you gently - I'd sooner trust the judgement of Rob and Derek (to pick just two) than a TPG who is mainly in it for the money, to sell slabs. I suspect lot of members on this forum just don't understand CGS grading process. Yes, a professional grader is not necessarily any better than a serious collector - but the difference is, that in CGS 2 graders have to refer to the extensive benchmark set of coins (I have seen some of these benchmark sets - they are stunning), each of which is allocated a unique number. When looking at such factors as striking, lustre, problems (for example, contact marks, stains), hairlines, haymarking, adjustment marks, cabinet friction etc, each grader compares the coin being graded to the relevant section of the benchmark set. When the benchmark coin that matches the aspect of the coin being graded is found, its unique number is fed into a computer. When all the factors have been entered, a programme that weights the numerous factors produces the numerical CGS UK grade. That is why their grading is so consistent and I exactly know what I can expect from coin graded UNC80, 85 or 88. Obviously nothing is perfect, however IMO this is by far the best attempt to reduce subjectivity when grading coins I have come across.. The sad fact is that most of the coins described by professional dealers as UNC will never make even the basic UNC80 grade... With the plethora of faked coins coming from Far East, the fact that CGS guarantee that the graded coin is genuine (or to pay the submitter the full market value of any non genuine English Milled coin that they may encapsulate) is quite reassuring for me as well. Thanks for that Mike - I bet I'm not the only one here who didn't know CGS went through a process so thorough!

Nice example. I was going to point out that it was surely a sideways N not a Z, but Coinery beat me to it. However, if you were to write a sideways N it would certainly look like a Z, and a lot less to write! So N over Z is good enough I guess

You can do much better with the 1887 shilling - they are common in high grade. Your 1674 farthing looks around Fine to me, and the 1799 halfpenny I'd rate as GF. I'm afraid I know "nar-thing" about hammered so would leave the Edward penny to others. Of those three I've mentioned, the 1674 farthing is by far the most valuable, though I don't have the latest Spink (in 2005 it was rated at £50 - there's one like yours on eBay, BIN £51).

Agree. Keep as is. The coin is honest. Note also the broken serif at the bottom of the 1 in the date. And on the obverse you can see quite clearly the "honi" on the queen's shoulder - honi of honi soit qui mal y pense i.e. "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it", which seems appropriate? Almost! "Evil be to him who evil thinks" (Or "Shame", as you say, for a literal translation). Thanks Peckris. I preferred the use of "shame" in this instance to go with the theme of it being a shame to dip etc the coin. Too right! Though I wonder - has anyone actually dipped a copper? Wonder what effect it would have...

Agree. Keep as is. The coin is honest. Note also the broken serif at the bottom of the 1 in the date. And on the obverse you can see quite clearly the "honi" on the queen's shoulder - honi of honi soit qui mal y pense i.e. "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it", which seems appropriate? Almost! "Evil be to him who evil thinks" (Or "Shame", as you say, for a literal translation).

Actually, I believe it's now been established that these are not "doubled linear circle", but ghosting of the bottom of Victoria's bust?

1. I don't think you will find many if at all on these forums 2. Grading isn't a precise science anyway - even professionals would differ by up to half a grade I do agree with your 'live and let live' attitude to slabs, but please don't assume that a professional grader is necessarily any better than a serious collector who's been learning it for years. Let me put it to you gently - I'd sooner trust the judgement of Rob and Derek (to pick just two) than a TPG who is mainly in it for the money, to sell slabs.

Very good Hello17. What is the hobby of polishing? A hobby of polishing coins would be fantastic. What is it that interests you about collecting coins? Good luck with the exams. Astronomy and polishing - perhaps Patrick is the guy who makes the stars twinkle! Maybe it's something they teach them in Year 10 which is also Year 11 weirdly...

RARE????

And that's the ONLY difference between them??

I don't want to get involved in what's becoming (for this forum, anyway) such a heated argument. I'd only point out in Dave's defence that if you were to poll the members of this forum (yes, we're self-selected, and ageing farts, but probably represent a good cross-section of serious collectors) you'd get a sizeable majority against slabs. Also, your examples are all of extremely rare proofs etc, and that's possibly not the most representative group of coins? After all, many owners of such might prefer to see them attributed and protected, especially as they are coins for which slabbing wouldn't particularly 'add value' being already rare and valuable. On that level I have a 'live and let live' attitude to slabbing, though I personally wouldn't entertain them. It's where perfectly common coins are slabbed and then valued many times their book value as a result - that's where slabs are an abuse, at least to my eyes. I wish there was a TPG system where you could get coins attributed and photographed, with the certificate and photo inside a thin slab, and the coin loose.

I bought 40 of the buggers and sold 1 to Declan. What is a Groom 1 and 2.I have a few others kicking about(about 40) and need to check these.My grandfather gave me a load of 1946 & 49 3d's from change.As a 10 year old lad I decided to corner the market.I got to about 40 before realising every single one minted was stashed in collectors hands so they weren't rare. worth about £5. I remember a few years back when the 1959S shilling suddenly went from less than £20 in BU to £75! I wondered if that was a misprint - anyone know if the 2012 Spink has brought it back down to realistic levels?

I've not seen ANY 1927 or 1937 proofs in slabs. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311&_nkw=1927+proof+set&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Not a slab in sight! I'd like to see them slab a 1927 proof set case! Quite! And you'd have to split the set up to slab the individual coins. Unless Vicky was talking specifically about the VIP versions of the 1927 and 1937 proofs? In which case, they are so rare that they hardly form a representative sample. (Searching London Coins for 1927 matte proofs doesn't bring up a single example).

Thank you Declan. That's very helpful. I hope you're talking about the books and not the 1959S shillings, Declan!

I've not seen ANY 1927 or 1937 proofs in slabs. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311&_nkw=1927+proof+set&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Not a slab in sight!

Don't count on your GCSE Maths - 10 and 11 are not equal!!!!

It's certainly a point of view, but not one I agree with myself, for the following reasons : You can't view the coin (carefully, wearing gloves) in the best light, or go in close with magnifier to look for varieties You can't photograph the coins properly Storage is an absolute b*gger Call me old-fashioned, but I can't see the attraction of slabs. People said CD-haters were clinging to vinyl in vain, but look what happened, vinyl refused to die.

I've got it! A woman scorned. Scary. It's like that film - Fatal Attraction. A Bunny Tooler

I use the vcoins search function which works pretty well, rather than by dealer or category. But I think only a few UK dealers are represented there and agree more would be good. I also find it strange when dealers use a website like a mailing list. Now when I collected milled coins I'd risk buying from a description in a mailing list. But with hammered coins I need a photo. OK, it takes time and I guess bandwidth. But I'm no longer prepared to buy sight unseen. For a start, I'm much more likely to pick up interesting details than most dealers will notice, but mostly because 'eye appeal' is an essential element in hammered coins. You can have two very similarly graded coins, but one might be much more appealing to me than the other for reasons that I'd find difficult to explain. As for people who have photos but don't post them or who just have thumbnails, well, I've tired of emailing dealers asking for pictures. Now if there aren't any or they are unclear I tend to just move on I'm afraid .. That's very true, Tom ~ or as a compromise they just have pics of their best coins, and nothing else. As far as on line dealers are concerned, good photography of their stock is pretty obviously essential for optimum take up. If you can't be there in person, as with a shop, then you need to view the item in other ways. I wish someone would tell the SW's biggest dealer Glenn Ogden from whom I've bought coins at fairs before. Now I'm restricted to buying online, I've had to rule him out just because he doesn't see fit to put up pictures. I took him up on this a while back and got a really rude email from his wife.

Probably worth a few bob....... Perhaps the Churchill Crown should be renamed the Churchill Seat? (AKA Blenheim Palace)

Perhaps we need a Hurricane Winnie, to see off some of those Churchill crowns. Though actually, judging from the last few days ..