Peckris

I guess with this provenance one has to presume fake until proven innocent! It may just be the angle of the photograph but, if you look at the reverse beads at 2 O'Clock and 12 O'clock, there appears to be quite a significant variation in gap between them and the rim? The photo looks straight-on enough that I wouldn't expect it to be quite so much of an illusion? Who knows? And you can have a chioce of dates I do love a date chocice

That's odd, you can't move for Muffins these days

Would you post pictures please? (150k per post, so you may need to use two posts, one for the obverse, one for the reverse; alternatively you can use a photo hosting site and link directly to your pictures of the coin). It's not really possible to comment without seeing what you describe.

She's a seller after your own heart Dave - "I have to of these" I sent her a message saying it's what "we in the trade call a washer" and that even her starting price of 99p overvalues it Lol, i emailed and asked if she'd give ME a quid two Take it off her hands :-D

She's a seller after your own heart Dave - "I have to of these" I sent her a message saying it's what "we in the trade call a washer" and that even her starting price of 99p overvalues it

The problem is, some of the Chinese fakes are so good, the only way to spot a particular one is when two coins turn up with EXACTLY the same blemishes/minor spots, etc. The first would fool an expert. The second, side by side with the first, would show they are both fakes taken from the same original. There's no way to cover those, and they are the biggest menace, in my book. What makes it more dangerous these days is that the original Chinese fakes have now been sold on two or three times since which results in a lack of alarm bells ringing when these forgeries come up for sale. And when the original comes up, what then? It's such a can of worms.

Just a box-standard, most common of all the Elizabeth sixpences (lot 396)! Also, I can't stop returning to look at the threepence (399), still haven't decided about that one, even now! The sixpence isn't really a better grade, it's just a little more 'balanced,' I'm just not certain about that obverse tone, so I'm trusting in poor white balance on this occasion. Ah, hammered. I really cannot get any enthusiasm for the medieval period, except those late finework coins which someone posted pictures of. I wouldn't know what a bog-standard Liz sixpence was if it jumped up and bit me!

I don't know if you ever watch Bargain Hunt on BBC? Some of those auctions feature internet bidders. They are treated just like floor bidders, except as has been noted, competing floor bidders will get the main auctioneer attention (but think about it - if you were there in person and two people were slugging it out, you would wait until EITHER they passed your maximum OR one dropped out, at which point you would jump in; so with the internet). As for not getting noticed, if only one bidder is left on the floor, the auctioneer will always glance towards the phones/computers before hammering - he will want to be sure there are no more competing bids. The only problem would be if you suffered an internet dropout, or there was a server delay; but there's nothing you can do about those situations anyway. So don't worry! Thanks, Chris! I guess it was not having the picture in my mind about how things worked in the room, it's getting there! It's not as if I'm looking to set the world on fire today, I'm just looking to slightly upgrade a coin, that will be sold if I'm successful. I bought the current one less than half price, so I can bid quite strongly on the replacement, and still not be out of pocket, hopefully! Just out of interest, what's the coin you're looking to upgrade?

The problem is, some of the Chinese fakes are so good, the only way to spot a particular one is when two coins turn up with EXACTLY the same blemishes/minor spots, etc. The first would fool an expert. The second, side by side with the first, would show they are both fakes taken from the same original. There's no way to cover those, and they are the biggest menace, in my book.

I don't know if you ever watch Bargain Hunt on BBC? Some of those auctions feature internet bidders. They are treated just like floor bidders, except as has been noted, competing floor bidders will get the main auctioneer attention (but think about it - if you were there in person and two people were slugging it out, you would wait until EITHER they passed your maximum OR one dropped out, at which point you would jump in; so with the internet). As for not getting noticed, if only one bidder is left on the floor, the auctioneer will always glance towards the phones/computers before hammering - he will want to be sure there are no more competing bids. The only problem would be if you suffered an internet dropout, or there was a server delay; but there's nothing you can do about those situations anyway. So don't worry!

Or, it could be a serious misstrike. Yes, the diameter is crucial, as the design looks as though it's been struck on a larger flan, but this would only be clear once we knew how it compares to a kosher 5p of the day. The overall appearance is of a coin that's been machined in some way. It does look weird. Hi, it is 25mm in diameter, just got hold of 1970 5 new pence to compare it. it is only 22mm in diameter so it could be the crushed idea. Thank you for your input. Ray. Not a straightforward thing at all. The obverse looks exactly as if the entire coin was crushed, e.g. by a steamhammer or something. However, when you look at the reverse, it's totally different. The design is preserved as it was, and only the part outside of the beaded circle has been extended. That's not to rule out extreme pressure, but something has protected the reverse design.

That's true. However, the advantage of a made-to-measure solution is that you start with all the fields you identify as what you need, and can add to it as you go along without difficulty. The initial effort will repay dividends in the long run. I have now taken the plunge and bought the Exact Change Software, via download. It will obviously take a little practice but my first impressions are positive, it is easy to customise which is very important, so I could add a value item in £s (has standard $ values of course) and a field for Peck numbers very easily. The UK coverage looks pretty good and where there are important series missing such as patterns these seem to be easy to add as well. I have not tried adding my photos in yet but will do in the coming months. Setting up is very easy so for example if you want to record all the Edward Viii farthings you can do this in one operation and then simply go back and add specific details such as grade for each coin. I have ordered some ebooks which cross reference to the coins and am looking forward to seeing how this works when they arive on CD. One important thing is I could delete all the US standard series that you start with a setup and then just add the GB series I wanted. It would be possible to just have one series such as Farthings and not clutter yourself with all the other denominations in the files. So so far so good. Ah, this is a personal collection software combined with a complete database of a national currency? Yes, I can see how it would be useful to have EVERY coin there, that you can add your own acquisition details per individual coin to. However, I still like to have my bespoke system of related files, which is unique to my own collecting themes and interests.

There's always room for humour! Glad you've found a theme.

Thanks coppers! Us iPhoners, eh? Can I see a 'replica' stamp on the rim between the H and R of CHRISTO? Does Safari on the iPhone not allow you to create links? You'll be telling me next it doesn't have tabbed browsing!

Or, it could be a serious misstrike. Yes, the diameter is crucial, as the design looks as though it's been struck on a larger flan, but this would only be clear once we knew how it compares to a kosher 5p of the day. The overall appearance is of a coin that's been machined in some way. It does look weird.

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices. I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to make some points and add some questions for our undoubted experts! I am not remotely worried about the CGT on coins as I don't expect ever to make over £10,000 profit on a single coin ... if I ever did I would be delighted and I am sure would get away with not declaring it! - a nice problem to have! I have not yet regarded coins as an investment and have been careful to distinguish collecting/the hobby decisions from investment decisions, as all the best advice would recommend I would seriously consider investing in gold and silver coins if and when the price of such precious metals fell back to their pre 2009 prices, as I would confidently expect to make a good (tax-free) return on them in the medium to long term, expecting them to occasionally return to current levels sometime in the next 10 years, and if not, to certainly beat other (taxable) investment options My question is - if you invest in gold and/or silver coins that are priced at/worth say 1.5-2X bullion value (sovereigns are a prime example), how much are they affected by fluctuations in the bullion price? For example, buy a sovereign for £500/$800 now, assuming that is the going rate for that date/rarity/condition, and the bullion price of gold halves to $860, what might be the effect on the value of that coin? Is there an inherent content value built in for coins that have significant precious metal content, but are collectable beyond their metal content? I hope the question makes sense, it is the same question for pre 1947 silver! Possibly unanswerable. Here's some Spink data comparing 2000 and 2005 (before the huge bullion increases of course): 1911M to 1918M : 2000 £75 ... 2005 £85 each 1929M : 2000 VF £500 EF £1750 ... 2005 VF £900 EF £1400 1930M : 2000 VF £95 EF £175 ... 2005 VF £95 EF £120 1931M : 2000 VF £150 EF £300 ... 2005 VF £200 EF £250 As you can see, the BV increased by around 15% in 5 years, but the coin values don't match up at all. Generally the VF prices range from static to much higher, while the EF prices are all lower. I'm sure if I picked a different series, the results would be different again.

Is that Dolphin Coins trading under a different name? I didn't know that. I used to enjoy flicking through The Sovereign, which had some gorgeous coins for sale if only I could have afforded them!

The decimal 5p and 10p came out in 1968 1969 and 1970, before D-Day. The 50p arrived in 1969 and 1970. The bronzes were available from 1968 in sets, but none dated earlier than 1971. The 1970 5p is a common coin, yours may be very worn, or could be mis-struck, in which case please post pictures.

That looks great, Numidan! The only thing that sprung to mind was how strike weakness could be factored into the equation? Superb idea though, which for the main part could work! At the end of the day a grade's a grade! Bag marks, edge knocks, etc, only affect appeal, and consequently value! Would be a very good start to get the grade right! I'm still trying to work out what the diagrams are of I'm assuming of something that someone could use in grading terms. -5 being good and -50 poor etc. I thought Derek Riley brought out a book for such requirements? Grading is always going to be subjective, no matter how we all think, we've seen it so MANNNNNNY times on this forum where we as experienced collectors do not agree, so we should basically pass that subject by and work on the rest. The diagram (section of king George V's crown on Canadian coins) was presented to prove a point, there maybe other ways to grading. It was not there to teach someone how it works, so do not assume, it is a bit more complex than that. If your method works, good for you, I respect that, but it did not work for me and I am guessing, it is not working for many others since forums are full of buyers complaining about the grade of their new purchases. How many of you, picked up a coin in your collection that you had previously graded, and wondered why you attributed that grade and changed it? That is objectivity at its best. Believe me, next time you will take the same coin, you will change its grade ... again. I was fed up always second guessing the grade. After searching the internet for Mr. Riley's book and I found an excerpt of it. It looks like a great reference book but it uses the same old methodology. People have to guess what grade their coins are, based on pictures. But the things I do liked about this book, pictures are clear and the author did not use a one size fits all philosophy. Thank you, Azda. I do agree with you that we should basically pass that subject, I am satisfied with my grading skills and do not need to prove anything to anyone. Your diagram appraoch is certainly different, and I'm sure useful especially with particular features on particular coins. But I'm surprised by your verdict on Derek's book? Far from being the ''same old methodology" it's a radical new approach using photos of all the major UK design types in various states of preservation - just the thing for a beginner, I would have thought. I'm unsure why you think it's lacking? It takes the guesswork OUT of grading, especially for beginners. Also, you say your diagram approach is to measure "die wear", but surely we are talking coin wear here, not die wear? Die wear is a more subtle thing and shows itself in the quality of the strike, but has to be judged more by the experienced eye, or a helpful dealer.

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices. Excellent commonsense, Rob. Or a way to repay the student loan!

1877 Victoria penny possible reverse-j freeman small date 0.66mm between 77 . narrow lighthouse and narrow neck. Wide date penny's have much smaller lighthouse and neck. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/webcatalogue/137/L1730r.jpg What lighthouse?? Neck, what neck? DEFINITELY Reverse J - the commonest one for 1877 As for his link, ERROR 403 Forbidden

LOL me too. I think the majority of us here fall into the 'middle' category, and are the ones who apparently need to worry most, unless we love our coins so much that loss of value is of no concern.

Rob has given some good advice. My own take on it is similar - don't buy from the Royal Mint as their special issues are vastly overpriced, aimed purely at making a profit for themselves. But if you are interested in sovereigns, there are some good 20th Century issues you can pick up from dealers at little more than bullion value. They won't be short-term investments (gold is very high, you'll be buying near the top of the market), but if you have an interest in them, and keep them, they will gradually appreciate in value as well as giving you pleasure in owning them. If you begin your investment with the latest edition of Spink's "Coins of England" (it comes out annually), you will get an idea of the values of sovereigns for every reign. Even many Victorian sovs, if not in the top grades, can be got for near bullion value.

1. YOUR FULL NAME.......................................David Cameron 2. YOUR AGE....................................................40 ish 3. YOUR OCCUPATION...................................Wanker 4. YOUR ADDRESS..........................................10 Downing street, London 5. YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE NUMBER.......Can't say These 2 would go hand in hand eh, both trying to rip everyone off, Cameron is doing a better job though

It's unique! How many coins feature those alluring folds and creases?