Peckris

To coin collectors, "Good" condition is actually bad. I'm sure you mean better than that? A picture would help greatly

Apart from the usual suspects, you might find some good articles at the end of the Coincraft Catalogue if my memory serves me well - though if these cover the topic in question to any extent, that I can't remember.

So you're not a Buddhist then? I love rice, the solitude of mountains, sitting under trees, and have an expanding waistline...I'm in! ;-) Me too! And don't forget the getting up at 4 AM ... oh, wait... Happy Easter or whatever you celebrate, one and all

I have really no idea how you'd go about researching this. It's a great topic though. Just a few jottings : 1. The Romans seem to have gone in for realism, judging by the variety and anthromorphic nature of portraits on their coins. Equally, Celtics and Saxons didn't pretend to aim at the same end, preferring what seems to be a very stylised interpretation of form. In the street, you could far more likely recognise Vespasian for example, from his numismatic portrait, than you could Offa. 2. By the time of medieval coinage (hammered) - whether through incompetence or simply a preference for stylised artificiality, you get a ludicrously similar representation on coins through a 400 year period. This comes to an end with the rather lovely profile portraits of Henry VII, and the portraits of Henry VIII are uncannily like his paintings we are familiar with. On the other hand Elizabeth was supposed to be paranoid about having only 'officially approved' portraits being done, which renders any numismatic image instantly untrustworthy. 3. In the milled era, there must be a certain amount of flattery in all reigns, right through to our present Queen. Anne was notoriously ugly and while her coins reveal no oil painting, I rather suspect you would not have wanted to meet her Maj down a dark alley. 4. George IV was vain to the point of ridicule. Again, I suspect that the three chins you see on his coins would have been closer to 5 or 6. As for the long-reigning Victoria, we wouldn't know anything about her middle-aged appearance from her coins as she morphs from young to elderly almost overnight (in 1887 for silver, and 1895 for bronze). It seems your topic could easily divide into two : - who created the most realistic portraits? - who created the most pleasing (to the monarch) portraits?

I think the two rim widths make an interesting variety. Minute differences in width of the ship would just send me right off to sleep.

5 for me too. I didn't know which of the four denominations didn't come from abroad, and - another "abroad" question - I didn't know which other country has a shilling. I was fine on the UK questions!

If you look closely - especially the reverse - you will see that the surface layer is a silvery colour that's peeling off in places to show a darker metal underneath. On a genuine silver coin I would expect the surface to tarnish quite badly, but with perhaps a few brighter spots showing through where the tarnish has been affected by the unearthing process. This seems to be the opposite. Something about its surface just doesn't look right, though the design appears to be absolutely right.

Were they heck! The engine was a complete disaster from top to bottom and no amount of remedial work was ever going to cure it. The back axle wasn't much better. Mine seized solid while driving, broke in half, collapsed onto the road pulling the handbrake cable with it and sending me slewing across a duel carriageway showering oil everywhere. I'm lucky I'm still here! Sounds like you had a particularly bad one Derek - the archetypal BL "Friday afternoon" job. Though according to Wikip the surviving examples run particularly well having had the endemic problems ironed out by owners upgrading parts to the level BL should have adopted in the first place.

I wonder. On the currency pieces (1967), the wide rim came later - in 1968 - so I'd expect something similar on the 1970s. On the other hand, it may be that left-over currency wide rim dies were polished up for use in the 1970 sets, which didn't get produced until a few years after 1970. The London Mint was responsible for both, so who knows? I concur up to a point. If the narrow rim was an emergency use of an old obverse die, then these would be the last issued. The only one I've never had is the 3+K. If the above is true, then K should be the earlier die for 1970. Sounds reasonable, I'm guessing that an earlier 1960's narrow rim proof die was used inadvertantly (it appears identical to my 1960 proof) rather than the "correct" 1970 wide rim proof die or a polished 1968 (assuming it went wide in 1968) I've not seen any 1968 proofs so I don't know if they would have used narrow or wide. Yes, that's right. The 1967 'wide rims' appeared in 1968, and the denomination was demonetised in 1969. However, it's worth pointing out that the 'wide rim' first made an appearance in 1956, as a one-year (scarce) variation.

Looking for volunteers?

The supermarkets now market them as "Moroccan (or Turkish) meatballs" with some pretentious sauce and fancypants packaging.

I think it's a contemporary forgery. It appears to be silver washed with base metal showing through.

Especially when you think that Uni admission in 1972 was for 'the academic elite' (the top 10 - 20% of schoolkids) whereas now it's pretty close to 50%?

I wonder. On the currency pieces (1967), the wide rim came later - in 1968 - so I'd expect something similar on the 1970s. On the other hand, it may be that left-over currency wide rim dies were polished up for use in the 1970 sets, which didn't get produced until a few years after 1970. The London Mint was responsible for both, so who knows?

You would probably need your own oil well. Somebody above mentioned Stags. I had one late nineties/early noughties. Lovely styling and sound superb but required a bottomless pit of money. Nothing was built to last and it began to seriously erode my capital, so sadly had to sell and bought a big brute of a Riley 2 1/2 litre saloon instead. Built like a tank, weighs a ton and a half and very much made to last. Will do nearly the ton but might take 5 miles to stop and at 17 miles a gallon... Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread. I just lit the blue touchpaper and retired! Apparently the Stag's well-documented troubles were largely cured by the addition of an oil cooler and a different oil pump. I read about it in a Triumph magazine - typical bl**dy BL compromise on what should have been a superb motor.

Do you know the origin of a certain pervy greeting in English? It goes back to the days of the French Navy. Before a sea battle the crews were allowed to hit the red-light district en masse. When it was time to embark they sent a messenger round all the brothels to call out (in French) : "To the water - it is the hour".

Amazing - they have morphed into "MR" Brain's faggots now.

Pity - without the gunk that's a really nice example of a 1902 penny.

The first has a horseback rider, with the reverse commonly used on English silver coins from Charles II onwards. However, I believe the same reverse was also used for Hanover? So that may be a clue.

The VF market has to encompass the bulk of collector interest because there simply isn't enough EF or better material to go around once you go back to the 18th or 19th century or before. The down side of this collector base is that they also have less disposable income to spend and are the first to batten down the hatches when the economic tea leaves are unfavourable. That is why it is always the middle markets that suffer first and most. I can definitely see this happening with the VF's as this is where my concerning thoughts have been of late, and as you say the middle markets suffer first and most, but I have decided to stay positive in my thoughts and say this 'mid' market although maybe taking the bulk hit first should be the steady 'ship' in the long term. When the top end starts to sink then what ship are the 'new' collectors going to jump to!? I feel quite happy with this positive way of thinking! I won't be reading any more posts....just in case VF has always been the trickiest grade for dealers to dispose of. There are any number of date run colllectors who are happy with Fine or thereabouts, which is why the bottom end has always tended to hold up comparatively well. And at the upper end there are those who want the best possible, which translates to EF or better. VF tends to be the arena for the first group when or if they upgrade (excluding those who buy rarities who may well hover around VF especially if that's all that's available). So I would say that VF is an area to collect where you will gladden the heart of dealers, who may offer you some good bargains if you spend often with them.

The numbers etc. are my own invention (fx A701r is A = Group A, 7 = 1817, 01 die number, r = reverse). To my knowledge no one has published any kind of die study of these counterfeits. How many shilling do you have? ...or how many dies do you think exist? I admire your research. May I suggest that when you assign die numbers, you're missing a layer that wouldn't apply to official releases? Somewhere you need a way to identify (or at least group) the counterfeiter involved. Some will be known from contemporary reports, but no-one has matched dies to particular counterfeiters to my knowledge. If large-scale, there may be several dies associated, but otherwise there may be only one or two. I wonder if there is a way to link die characteristics to particular individuals? Except for the Ingley counterfeits of the 3/- BoE token there seems to be no way of identifying the individual coiners. Perhaps it may be possible to render which coins were made by William Booth but I'm not sure. We can only hope there's some evidence still hiding in the archives ...Scotland Yard? However more than 90% of the shillings belongs to groups which are connected with each others. So there's a fair chance they were all produced or controled by the same counterfeit ring. Wow. That must have been the major crime ring of its day. Did that get broken up?

Loved those cars. As a youth, one of my friends had the Vitesse. Bit like the TR6, way too much performance for the chassis though. Yes - you had to VERY careful about cornering in one of those in case the rear end came round to shake hands with the front end That's very true, supposed to be the equal or better than a London taxi. Parking was brilliant - you could get into spaces with less than six inches clearance front and back.

The numbers etc. are my own invention (fx A701r is A = Group A, 7 = 1817, 01 die number, r = reverse). To my knowledge no one has published any kind of die study of these counterfeits. How many shilling do you have? ...or how many dies do you think exist? I admire your research. May I suggest that when you assign die numbers, you're missing a layer that wouldn't apply to official releases? Somewhere you need a way to identify (or at least group) the counterfeiter involved. Some will be known from contemporary reports, but no-one has matched dies to particular counterfeiters to my knowledge. If large-scale, there may be several dies associated, but otherwise there may be only one or two. I wonder if there is a way to link die characteristics to particular individuals?

Good bit of research. I like the clumsy security measure in the phrase "another new church not known where". Yeah, right!

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