Peckris

I would go with violence and persistence but otherwise agree with you. There are too many people in prison for non-violent crimes they are never going to repeat (remember the case of, I think it was Gary Hart who accidentally drove a trailer onto a railway line which caused a fatal accident? He was gaoled because he had had insufficient sleep the night before. A case crying out for a community sentence, but instead he got 3 years - a total waste of time and money). I couldn't agree more about Gary Hart, Derek. What happened was an appalling accident. But it was an accident, caused by falling asleep at the wheel. Something that could have happened to anyone. If he'd just driven off the road into a wood, say, nothing more would have happened. But he fell unlucky, as did the train and its passengers. Twist of fate and extraordinarily harsh outcome. Jailing him was wrong IMO. For those who don't remember the case, there's an article about it here Agreed. Intention and motivation count for a hell of a lot. Gary Hart was stupid but no more stupid than the branch line diesel driver who didn't see a red light and caused the Paddington rail crash where 30+ people died. And even though a RailTrack subsidiary (?sub-contractor?) were allegedly responsible for Potters Bar, no-one went to jail over that.

OMG. You actually want updated prices??? I wouldn't be any more authoritative than you, less in fact! Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were looking for compositing or layout or textual or proofreading help. I'd best keep my big mouth shut in future. Well, for 5 minutes at least

Oh shucks. "Bidding.." (i.e. none) "..has ended for this item." There went my opportunity whats his name.....ive £125 waiting Blimey - even at today's prices £125 for those two wouldn't exactly be a steal!

That makes more sense. I can sympathise with that even I don't outright approve.

Only collect Edward VII pennies in high grade (EF or better) but you need quite a lot of experience to judge the better examples. It might be better to wait a while, or go for VF examples to whet your appetite? (You can pick up most dates in VF for less than a fiver, 1902 even less).

And scout master Bates Or as the old joke said ... Northern guy enrols his son in a public school and takes his whole family up with him on the kid's first day. "Hello headmaster - I'm Mr Bates, my wife Mrs Bates, my daughter Miss Bates, and my son Master Bates." "Oh does he now. We'll soon cure him of that."

The lower of those two estimates is about right freddyy - probably around £60 a pop.

Pictures are the only way we can grade them - and that's the key to the value. Your cartwheel could be anything from £15 to £120... From CCGB 2009 : 1797 twopence - F £20 VF £45 EF £110 1821 halfcrown - F £20 VF £50 EF £160 You get the point why we need pictures, I hope! Here's the two George III coins and the George IIII one. The 1806 coin is not a third guinea! It's either a penny or a halfpenny, depending on size, but worth almost nothing in that condition. The other two are Fine (give or take) and worth around £20 each. Hope that helps.

If you scroll to the top of this page, there's a picture of the titles - clicking them takes you to Amazon. I don't see any copies of CCGB there right now, but Chris Perkins (whose forum this is) might stop by and sell you one; they are about £6 I think. The Grading book is available on Amazon and on offer at £8.44 right now. I've got both and they are good value, especially for beginners.

Pictures are the only way we can grade them - and that's the key to the value. Your cartwheel could be anything from £15 to £120... From CCGB 2009 : 1797 twopence - F £20 VF £45 EF £110 1821 halfcrown - F £20 VF £50 EF £160 You get the point why we need pictures, I hope!

Really? You surprise me! I thought that was very definitely illegal, as much so as 'ringing'?

I must admit, that thought passed through my mind as well. Overall, you're probably right, David. Best to play it safe. Although we have in the "free for all" ebay laughs slated a few ebay sellers, where's the difference? I'm not sure we've ever been libellous. And where there's been sharp practice, such dealers would hardly like to draw attention to themselves by initiating court action, especially as this would inevitably mean that evidence-gathering would shine a very unwelcome spotlight on their activities.

I've been collecting since I was 15, so 4 years now Seriously though, a looooong time! And you're right about trial and error when you begin - which is why it's important as a newbie to buy cheap, that way if you make mistakes it won't hurt too bad. One suggestion is to try collecting by TYPE. This means getting one of each main type, rather than one of every date. So, for example, pre-decimal Elizabeth II you'd want :- • Crowns 1953, 1960, 1965 (each is a different type, and not expensive) • one each of Halfcrown, Florin, English shilling, Scottish shilling, sixpence, threepence, penny, halfpenny, farthing. You want the highest grade you can get - uncirculated coins from the 60s are usually much cheaper than the 50s (except farthings which only go up to 1956). If you get the two books I mentioned before, they will teach you a lot and help you get started

Somewhere I still have a Coin Monthly from around 1970 where a dealer is advertising a BU 1932 and 1934 for £125 the pair. That's probably near £1000 in today's money.

Actually it's quite true that Britannia is slimmer on the 1797 penny. Too many pies or was she 'in the family way'? Not to mention "old big head" on the obverse!

I disagree. I attended my first W&W auction in 1997 when prices were VERY conservative (coins were only just beginning to move out of their long stagnation). Yet even then, estimates were something you took with a large pinch of salt, but there was always the "What if...?" thought at the back of your mind, a kind of hope that took you to the sale "just in case". So I do believe estimates are pitched low deliberately to encourage bidding. Peck I actually work as a consultant for one auction house already on coin cataloguing and I'm telling you that an estimate is supposed to be a realistically achievable price on a lot. That is the accepted norm in auctioneering. If W and W apply "come and buy me's" they are the exception not the norm. We're probably arguing about semantics. When I say "low", I mean the very bottom end of what you're calling "realistically achievable" (i.e. if it's a rainy day, hardly anyone turns up, and there's no collectors in the room). There's no way they will ever be "not conservative".

Usually unexpected wear like this is due to it having been kept in a purse or a pocket for an extended period of time with the rest of the loose change (and people used a lot more of it in those days). 10 years in those conditions doesn't do anything for the grade! LOL true!

the 1889 shilling is the rare one with the Jubilee head on, at 23mm it would be a shilling Only if it's the small head. The larger JH is only worth what the other dates are.

Good - that's a nice mixed group of items. It's best to see what interests you, and buy widely when you're starting out, then decide later what you want to 'major' on. But remember - condition is the most important thing : it's more important than rarity. A worn rare coin might be worth only £2 - £3. Whereas a run-of-the-mill Victorian shilling might be worth scrap only if worn, but around £200 in top grade (just as an example). You could do a lot worse than buy just two books to start you off : Collectors Coins GB (the 2011 edition will be out in a month or two), and The Grading Guide to British Coins. Both can be bought through this forum and will teach you a lot about coins, varieties, and condition.

With cleaning, I would go for about £20-£25 on a good day. They are interesting coins but quite common ones (I've got no less than four in Fine-VF), so Palves, tell your friend to keep his money in his pocket and shop around. Just one word of warning, they do get rather expensive in the very highest grades. sound advice Agreed. Though if your friend really COULD get it for as little as £25 and allow it to tone back over time, it might be worth persisting with. The rim is exceptional and believe me, that's a big issue with those coins. Such a damn shame about the cleaning.

Sure. But perhaps slow down a bit with the quickfire rat tat tat of questions? Tell us a bit about yourself - what have you started collecting, what types and series of coins float your boat, what are you specifically looking for? Etc.

I disagree. I attended my first W&W auction in 1997 when prices were VERY conservative (coins were only just beginning to move out of their long stagnation). Yet even then, estimates were something you took with a large pinch of salt, but there was always the "What if...?" thought at the back of your mind, a kind of hope that took you to the sale "just in case". So I do believe estimates are pitched low deliberately to encourage bidding.

LMAO. I was very sad to learn (especially having watched the old Captain as a kid) that "Master Bates" and "Seaman Staines" were just urban legends and never actually existed in any language edition of Pugwash. Although in football, it was no urban legend that Seaman was lobbed from 25 yards on occasions

Hmm, so the next time Man U are 1:1 at 90, and need a winner, they won't be able to give them 12 minutes injury time !!! No, they'll just get Rooney to score an "impossible" goal. Grrr.

Agreed. Such pennies were a staple of the 'dreaded auction lot'. You know the one "...huge collection of (mainly) 20th Century coins. In three large cardboard boxes." The one where you thought "Shall i? Nah, sod it, life's too short." I should have done what you did. Instead I thought, "Go on then...." and ended up with an awful lot! Actually I had a good excuse because for 10 years I ran an arcade with my collection of old penny machines at my daughter's school Christmas Fayre. I let the kids take winnings away and got through a few hundred each year. So I had to replenish my stock!