Peckris

It was interesting, yes. Inevitably, collectors will think more and more in investment terms given the recent steep rise in coin values. Yes, interesting, but I couldn't help think of the three times previous we have "been here before" - once in the late 60s with all those "investment opportunities" involving mint-sealed bags of 1967 pennies etc, then in the mid-70s when inflation sent investors flocking towards alternative forms, and then again in the early 80s with that silver fiasco and all those auction highs for rare coins. I can't help feel that, like property prices, the "eBay phenomenon" (i.e. prices craze) won't last forever, and that it's always best to enjoy our collections, while at the same time trying to avoid paying top dollar during a rising market. Remember the long stagnation from the mid-80s to the late 90s? That's what worries me, assembling my bun collection at possibly the height of a coin bull market. Not that it dissuades me from buying ~ in the slightest. So it can't worry me that much That's the spirit!

I have that very medal - in top condition of course. But, it's at least Crown sized not 25mm!! So though it looks like it, by the size, it can't be. And I'd echo the obvious question : how did it get so worn? They produced 2 different sizes Peck, the shilling size for peasants and the big boy for rich men, like yourself! Just checked up and it was indeed by T (Thomas?) Brock. Ah that explains it And might also explain the wear - perhaps someone in the late 19th/early 20th Century, a time when "a bob were reet proper money" decided to spend it and Mr Busy Shopkeeper never noticed it wasn't a proper shilling? Mebbe?

Agreed. Such pennies were a staple of the 'dreaded auction lot'. You know the one "...huge collection of (mainly) 20th Century coins. In three large cardboard boxes." The one where you thought "Shall i? Nah, sod it, life's too short."

Um, lami what? My penny just clacks when you drop it on a table, instead of ringing. Otherwise it looks perfectly normal.

Up North, wasn't that put there to keep the scots out. Wot? U mean norf of Watford Gar? Strewf cor blimey do me a favour guvnor. I think you will find that the North was put here to protect all the Southern woofties from the marauding tribes in the North, West and Scandanavia. Any good officer knows that you always put the hard lads at the front in a fight

Yes, but Crowns weren't a circulating coin then, despite the commemorative issues. You most likely would never have received say, a Churchill Crown, in your change. Well you're right, the Crown as Crown wasn't a circulating coin - simply a commem as you say. And so it continued to be (same size, same value, just different name) starting in 1972. So technically, it didn't disappear as such - was there even an order in Parliament for its demonetisation? I've long held that it could not have been, for several reasons : 1. It occurred for only a short period in 1971 (infaltionary pressures are either longer term, or really dramatic e.g. oil prices) 2. 'Rounding up' couldn't have affected more than the last 1/2p of any price - so the effect would have been trivial 3. The regional Weights & Measures people, and local authorities, were very watchful to prevent price abuse 4. Natural competition would have made those who 'rounded down' more frequented and successful than those who 'rounded up' 5. The policies of the Heath Government were naturally inflationary, e.g. money supply and wages policies 6. The Arab/Israeli wars, price of oil, etc, had a far far greater effect 7. .Strikes also caused a lot of inflation

Yes - over £100 is far too rich for that coin. Treated kindly and allowed to 'tone back' over a long period of time, it will be a nice specimen, but for now?..only at the right price.

It was interesting, yes. Inevitably, collectors will think more and more in investment terms given the recent steep rise in coin values. Yes, interesting, but I couldn't help think of the three times previous we have "been here before" - once in the late 60s with all those "investment opportunities" involving mint-sealed bags of 1967 pennies etc, then in the mid-70s when inflation sent investors flocking towards alternative forms, and then again in the early 80s with that silver fiasco and all those auction highs for rare coins. I can't help feel that, like property prices, the "eBay phenomenon" (i.e. prices craze) won't last forever, and that it's always best to enjoy our collections, while at the same time trying to avoid paying top dollar during a rising market. Remember the long stagnation from the mid-80s to the late 90s?

I don't know what the fuss is about (I think 400 was joking!). We often do give our opinion here when it's asked for. That's a twopence, not a penny. There doesn't look anything wrong with the design as far as I can see (though if you had compared it with a good picture of a 1797 penny, that might have made you suspicious - apart from the dramatic difference in size, there are small but subtle differences between the two denominations). The main thing wrong with it, is it's been cleaned (hence the suspicious colour)!! Presumably to give the impression of a higher grade. It is in fact barely VF in my opinion. However,in its favour, it has an excellent rim with little or no damage, lacking the usual knocks which is highly unusual. And the legend is good too. Without cleaning it could easily be a £50 - £75 coin, but the cleaning would knock that back quite a bit.

You're right to feel uneasy. It just doesn't 'feel' kosher at all. The colour on the obverse is iffy - looks like (perhaps) lead given a coppery coating. The date is suspiciously blurry (normally one of the clearest parts of those issues). And in places it has a cast look about it. I'm not sure I'd want to risk big bucks on it.

Check your Irish florin dates. Some from the 1940s are VERY rare indeed.

Yes, welcome Rose

I have that very medal - in top condition of course. But, it's at least Crown sized not 25mm!! So though it looks like it, by the size, it can't be. And I'd echo the obvious question : how did it get so worn?

Not only that, but you can't get jellied eels anywhere - mystery to me how you've survived this long. A nice ham and pease pudding stottie, you Southeners divvnt knar wat ye missin! ignorant gadgies, the lot of 'em!

Ah, now feeling a degree of embarrassment for that truly horrendous typo

One slight flaw in this - why would they need to experiment with £sd pennies as they were about to go out of fashion quicker than McFly songs? Looking at the off-centre nature of it, it looks like a penny struck on maybe a halfcrown blank. Carelessness rather than experiment. That sounds exactly right, given the evidence, Watson Wow, there are other clacking 1967 pennies?? Good news! Perhaps it can be recognised as a variety. [rubs hands together]. Retirement here I come! Oh wait...

LMAO. I was very sad to learn (especially having watched the old Captain as a kid) that "Master Bates" and "Seaman Staines" were just urban legends and never actually existed in any language edition of Pugwash.

What kind of help? I'm happy to help where I can. (Mutters under breath "bagsy pennies or halfcrowns")

I did do a bit of research on this, the concensus I got being that most people considered the garter to be part of the design rather than the legend. Since this bit wears so readily, if it was treated as part of the legend, there would be no coins (or at least the reverse of them) in Fine or Fair at all, the grading effectively dropping from VF straight through to Poor. I'm old school when it comes to grading Derek. It costs me money but I never get complaints or coins sent back due to overgrading. Even my grading seems very lax when you look at some of the graders from the old days at Spinks and their likes though! I can safely say that if Jim Brown at DNW saw this 1908 HC he would not give it more than Fine, if indeed it made it that high. I remember a Coin Monthly piece of advice (late 60s) given out to this very question of garter reverse halfcrowns. The questioner wanted to know if he could grade such items as 'Fine' if some garter letters were worn away. The answer given was that lower standards applied than to the main legend, but if more than a few letters were 'faint' it might be hard to award 'Fine'. How times have changed. Derek's book certainly shows the way, though we might all argue the 'fine points' to some extent. But judging by those pictures, I'd find it hard to justify not giving it an average 'VF' (though a long way from EF!). There's too much hair detail present - always an early casualty on Edw VII, and the reverse is pretty good apart from the high spots. I think grading standards have come down rather, but in one case I'm all in favour. 'Old school' EF said "wear so faint it is not detectable to the naked eye". Well, that argues that if it can not be seen without the aid of a strong glass, there shouldn't be a massive discrepancy between the prices for EF and UNC. But as we know, that differential can be MASSIVE - and it's no coincidence that it's opened up at the same time as EF has become much more 'noticeable' than strictly UNC. Who'd pay a massive difference in price for a virtually invisible difference in condition? I know I wouldn't, for one.

Is it a circulated coin? Those edge legends are the first to wear. But if it's clearly an error, you could put it on eBay as such and see if you get any bites?

That would never fit in my bath I thought you Northern boys had a tin tub in front of the fire. You're kidding! That's where the whippets get a wash. We just stand out in t'rain wi'a block o'Lifebuoy.

The Midland is not a million miles from where I live, and I know they do the major fairs, quarterly. So I might well go to the next big one in March. "Closed shop" ? ~ hopefully, it will be worth attending. in the days when I still dealt, that was a major buying stop. But back in those days Stephen Lockett, Dan Daley, Dave Craddock, Wayne Nicholls, Dorset Coins, Windsor Coins, et al were all there. Don't know how many of those still do it. Probably Wayne and Dave still show up?

1967 seems the likeliest date for penny curios - probably because 1) they turned out so many 2) quality control may have slackened off a little with the main business relocating to Wales. Hence my 'clacks doesn't ring' example.

... but they're working on it!

I'd rate it an average of VF (obverse not quite there, reverse a bit better)