Peckris

My thoughts? That COULD be a genuine example, which some clown has stamped COPY into. See how the field around the stamp has been dished, as if the impress was done post-minting? And it's showing through on Liz's hairdo too on the obverse, which makes the whole operation unbelievably clumsy.

How many London Mint 1882 pennies would you say have survived (all grades)?

Nevertheless Rob, what you're espousing is right-wing monetarism. And nation states are NOT individuals! The Thatcher "England as corner shop" mentality broke down years ago, in fact it was never valid. Individuals and families certainly SHOULD live within their means (overdrafts excepted of course, from which the banks make healthy profits). Companies perhaps less so (add 'cash flow' and 'orders on the books' to the overdraft equation). Nations least of all. Keynes proved that in the 1930s and it hasn't failed since, unless perverted in the name of dogma. Yes yes, I know today's growth figures were healthier than forecast, but everyone spoken to said that has absolutely nothing to do with the spending review, which actually hasn't even begun to bite yet. I stand by the Keynesian analysis : we have to spend to invest. That way people are in work, the government RECEIVES : - National Insurance - Taxes - VAT on consumer spending The government SAVES : - on unemployment benefit and income support Everybody's happy. Everybody's quids in. Wankers with leveraged positions trading money that doesn't exist in some kind of 'game' that no-one fully understands. That's about the size of it. Doesn't it piss you off intensely that a few bloated, up themselves, individuals have so much unmitigated power I just found a brilliant summation of the argument against the cuts! Here is the link (it says it all much more logically, fluently and coherently than I could ever hope to) : http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/campaigns/campaign-resources/there-is-an-alternative-the-case-against-cuts-in-public-spending.cfm Good summation, although I do take on board some of Rob's arguments as well. There are certain moves which might lead a cynical person to believe that the government is not being entirely truthful with us. For example, the news last night that a "universal pension" of up to £140 per week, irrespective of National Insurance contributions, being dangled as a carrot. Apparently this won't get going until after the next election, which, assuming the coalition doesn't fall apart before then, will be 2015. Note the operative phrase: after the next election. What a transparently blatant attempt to scoop the grey, female and baby boomer vote in one fell swoop. Or am I the only one to think this cynically ? Yes it came from Vince cable, but he's only acting as Cameron and Osborne's puppet. The money's there when they want it to be, Peck. Either that or they're lying. Both, I'd say. Kicking the disabled will save a few hundred million, no more, but it will please Daily Mail readers who think we're all workshy scroungers. And we've had government by that xenophobic, rabble-rousing, anti-semitic, populist, poor excuse for a newspaper for far too long now.

57 huh? When exactly did Heinz start up?

But if we are right and it's been tooled, it is now a severely damaged coin with a much lower retail value David You could be right David, but look at how much "tooled" 1933 pennies fetch on the 'Bay!

"Hey guys, let's put ourselves down as the songwriters of this one - no-one will know it's an old blues standard and we will make a ton of money" ??

Someone's just lost £229 then Bit strong! A normal reasonably high-grade 1882H has got be worth more than £1

Wankers with leveraged positions trading money that doesn't exist in some kind of 'game' that no-one fully understands. That's about the size of it. Doesn't it piss you off intensely that a few bloated, up themselves, individuals have so much unmitigated power I just found a brilliant summation of the argument against the cuts! Here is the link (it says it all much more logically, fluently and coherently than I could ever hope to) : http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/campaigns/campaign-resources/there-is-an-alternative-the-case-against-cuts-in-public-spending.cfm

Yeah, but £1500 with 3 days still to go ... ? I too thought it was no more than EF. And I hate scrappy lustre. I'd much prefer an evenly patinated penny.

I think you are cynical but probably quite correct Declan. You should be a socialist!

Blimey. Say what you like about the seller formerly known as "gg..something or other", but he does get 'em in. £411 with 4 days to go... Superb isn't it. I forecast near £2k. Tell you what, if I had the cash, I'd be in there saying, "come to Daddy" £1,561.11 with 3 days to go...

Quite right 1949. A "Robin Hood" tax on the banks (the real cause of the crisis two years ago, and without which there would be no talk of "deficit"), would raise in one stroke, what Osborne is about to wring out of the sick, disabled, and every other little pot he's raiding. It's part of the propaganda we are being fed Az. The Chancellor began his so-called "review" by telling us the Coalition had pulled Britain back from the brink of bankruptcy. Absolute tosh. Even Zimbabwe - the nearest thing to a bust economy - isn't bankrupt. Nations don't become bankrupt. They incur budget deficits, which they all do from time to time, to varying degrees. If nations went bankrupt, then Britain was bankrupt from the Napoleonic Wars right up until the 1980s or 90s, when we paid off the final instalment of the National Debt. Like I say, it's just propaganda.

Drop the spam? Drop the spam? I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam bacon spam and spam "Sorry dear, bacon's orf" "Can I have spam instead of bacon?" "What, you mean spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam and spam?"

I think you'll find it was bankers (in both senses). Aided and abetted by governments who didn't regulate them. I think you will find that the bubble will have burst with or without the bankers. The problems we are in at this moment is largely due to government over borrowing. The bankers just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, scapegoat anyone, very convenient. Gary I couldn't disagree more. If by "bubble" you mean the housing market, yes we've been there before : 1987 - 1990. It collapsed spectacularly, but the economy didn't. If by "bubble" you mean the stock market, yes, we've been there before, many times; usually followed by a recession which lasted a year or two, then back to bull times. THIS crash was caused by unregulated credit (fuelled by banks after quick and easy profits), which showed its vulnerability first in the American sub-prime mortgage markets. When that fell, the whole rotten pack of cards went with it - from Lehmann Brothers, Northern Rock, HBOS, Bradford & Bingley, various foreign banks, and the entire world economy with it. But... thank God that New Labour bailed out the banks here. Can you possibly even begin to imagine what shit we'd be in now if the banking sector had been allowed to collapse? THAT's where the massive deficit came from. It didn't even exist in 2007. Governments have over-borrowed all last century and this. Sometimes it caused big problems, sometimes it caused small problems, and sometimes - as with the New Deal in the USA in the 1930s - it got the world economy out of the shite. We could do with a little bit more over-borrowing to stimulate the economy and get things moving again. Yes, I'm a Keynesian. And proud of it.

Blimey. Say what you like about the seller formerly known as "gg..something or other", but he does get 'em in. £411 with 4 days to go...

True enough; at the time, I did put aside about 4 in decent condition. They disappeared after a theft, then I lost interest in pulling from change. Now I just want to get one to say I have it, and they're just not there! Of course, there'll never be the demand like for £sd, but it'd still be nice to 'fill the hole'. I think I have a few. Somewhere.

I think you'll find it was bankers (in both senses). Aided and abetted by governments who didn't regulate them.

Maybe they were paid a few pennies for the (forced) work they did?

Ah, but the differential between "bullion value" and "coin value" will always be huge with respect to copper. Only VG (or even worse) will be worth hoarding for metal value.

Not with any enthusiasm, but then if I look at my accumulation of pennies collected in the 60's, I have very few post 1894, "modern" except H & KNs didn't interest me at the time. I wonder how current bronze clad steel will look in 100 yrs time, will they rust with age? David More to the point, has anyone heard what the "new" composition of CuNi is to be from next year?

Doesn't have the feel of fire damage, no heavy oxidation It really doesn't look like a minting problem though. But there looks to be a rather nice 1919KN lurking beneath that scurf!

Freeman isn't gospel, of course. There are significant differences between his first edition and his second. The point here though is - the main striking for 1882 was done by Heatons. They were supplied with dies by the Mint. The London striking was done by the Mint and was possibly only a tiny experimental run. It is therefore much less likely that unknown die combinations will turn up, as Heatons were commissioned to produce a significant quantity of pennies. It is MORE likely that an unknown combination will turn up with an H than without, considering that was the main source of striking that year.

You're welcome. (When I wrote it, I could actually hear a Roy Cropper voice in my head, complete with anorak, so decided I'd better make it fairly brief )

That particular issue was something of a one-off. The edge milling is somewhat strange I admit. (I'm not sure what technology they used, but remember, this was only 10 years before the first official 'machined' coin of 1797). Yours looks a little more exaggerated than usual, but it may just be the lighting. I think your coin is perfectly ok.

Sadly "for its age" cuts no ice when grading coins, Rachel! It's rather pitted and damaged - the overall wear would place at Fine, without the damage. Which would mean it would have been worth £5 or £10 depending on variety (3 or 4 berries in the wreath). Sadly the damage would mean it's barely worth a couple of pounds, but it's a nice design. Historically it's interesting, being the first farthing of the machine age, minted using Matthew Boulton's impressive new steam-driven presses.