Peckris

ok Thank you. How do I go about getting it listed?? I have been in touch with coin news and Spink and am awaiting a reply (though I wont hold my breath with Spink). These coins are my fathers and he wants them selling which is why I asked. I always look at the coins carefully - just incase. I listed a 1926 penny for a BIN price of £1.00 - I realised my mistake and took off the BIN and got £30.00 for it...Thanks to your site. I am very grateful for all the help I get in here! You're doing the right stuff so far. And if there is to be a revision to Peck done by Rotographic, then you're in the right place here to get it recorded in the "bible" of copper coins! When you get it back from Spink (with or without their helpful comments) you could ask ChrisP if he'd like to see it? Gouby is another guy though this might be outside his specialist area. Did you get any response from Coin News?

That's a nice example, not quite as good as the BU I got from a coin fair about 9 years ago for £30 (book price at the time). 1932 mythology : rated since the late 60s as a 'scarce' penny, which only makes sense if you compare it to the vast minting of the 1936. 8 million is NOT scarce! Priced at £50 in the Coins and Medals 1970 Annual - which also lists a BU 1926ME at £150 (!), a BU 1864 at £125 (!!), and a BU 1797 twopence at £35 (!!!!!!!) Since the great meltdown, they are actually common in lower grades as everyone saved them including me. As for finding them in BU, I've certainly seen a few at fairs (ok not that many to be honest), but in my opinion they are easier to find than BU 1930 and 1931 which I think are the scarcest two dates. 1934 is an interesting date, because of the toning to some of them - again, scarce but not impossible. Chris, don't rush to increase CCGB values - even the latest Spink price of £100 is over-optimistic I feel and simply panders to the myth that this is a scarce penny. £200 is just the height of absurdity for one of these. You might as well ask the same price for a 1940 "single exergue line" BU, which is hardly ever seen.

The first coin is a Charles II 1672 farthing (or halfpenny). Can't tell from the size, but odds are its a farthing. The second is a late William III halfpenny, 1699-1701 - can't make out the date. The third is a counterfeit George III halfcrown, made in brass and then silver washed. Hope this helps. Thanks for your help. Any value whatsoever they are at least old coins? Well, only a little. The Charles farthing would raise £3 - £4 - although it's in poor condition, it at least has the date readable and more or less readable legend. It's barely possible to make out the details on the William III - your only hope would be if it turned out to be an extremely rare variety (usually a lettering error - but as I can make out "GVLIELMVS TERTIVS" that's very unlikely). A pound or two to a collector, no more. The George III has only interest value. Worth keeping for interest I'd say - my own numismatic career was sparked by a similar Charles farthing I got from a junk shop when I was still at school !

Oops, it would help to have the link! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting (I got interrupted, and so missed the absurdly short time we are allowed to edit our posts )

This Freeman variety - Obverse 2, LC Wyon below bust - is being offered on eBay and ends in 7 hours time. I've been following its progress (with detached interest!) and it has now passed its reserve and is up to £1200. It's probably the rarest penny I've seen on eBay.

As it started as a 99p auction, my bet is "yes, they are". Otherwise we'd have seen a Buy It Now somewhere up near the £1000 mark, is my hunch.

Ha ha, very probably true. Mind you, I think "our Ron" might have begun his career in Coin Monthly when I was a geeky schoolboy coin collector - at any rate, someone did an exhaustive study of 1907 pennies and came up with 5 or 6 varieties, all dependant on how long the downstroke of the 7 was, how stubby the end was, and precisely how far to the left of a tooth. Even my geeky younger self baulked at that. In the end, it was decided these 'varieties' were simply due to different stages of wear, and nothing was ever heard of it again!

Nice! That 1871 jumped straight from £71 to £112 in the last few seconds. Barmy. Well that's way overpriced in my opinion. On the other hand, here's a choice mediocre example with a Buy It Now of £40... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Very-Rare-Key-Date-1...#ht_1428wt_1008 Not to mention a selected average mediocre 1875H that's on offer for £30... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Very-Rare-1875-H-Pen...#ht_1512wt_1008

Nice! That 1871 jumped straight from £71 to £112 in the last few seconds. Barmy. Well that's way overpriced in my opinion.

Oh right - Davies. It's interesting, I have Peck, Freeman, Gouby, ESC, Seaby and Rayner, and Sealy - but the one gap in my reference library has always been Davies. But I guess he is long out of print? Ron Stafford! There's a blast from the past!! I remember his detailed surveys and statistical reports and his exhaustive examination of decimal 10 pences etc. For all his amazingly detailed and studious work, I never entirely took him seriously, I'm not sure why? Perhaps I found his focus just a teensy weensy bit anal, or more likely I just couldn't get worked up about the number of beads on a 10p...

Indeed - the secondary market for these items shows just how poor an "investment" they are. There's a glut of commems and the like (or there was, a few years back - I'm sure things haven't changed much?) - and the values in Spink are stagnant. And to make matters worse, the Elizabeth II pages in the Standard Catalogue have become quite ridiculous. I think they should confine them to currency issues only, including proof sets and BU sets, and move everything else out into a separate "Mint Issues & Commemoratives" booklet. Anything not issued for currency could go in there - from the 1972 Silver Wedding "Crown" onwards, i.e. all piedforts, all crown-sized pieces, all gold and silver Britannias, anything issued as a specimen in a folder, Baby Sets, you name it. And also it could then take in all those lovely fantasy pieces too, which don't get featured anywhere, such as the gorgeous pattern 1798 penny, with the Kuchler obverse and reworked Boulton reverse pattern.

The one on the left looks like a typical specimen - these were issued in their millions, often in a plastic holder by banks and numerous other organisations. The one on the right (which you think is different) looks like one of those issued loose by banks and post offices. Those would have toned to look just like yours, and I've seen any number that are 'greyish' and without obvious lustre.

And rather a nice 1864 too : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/British-1864-Victori...50#ht_500wt_797

There's a couple of nice rare date bun pennies on eBay right now. This VF 1871 : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...#ht_3594wt_1008 (which may have finished by the time you see this). It's nearly a whole grade better than my existing one, albeit with some die damage especially on the obverse. And this 1875H : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...37#ht_500wt_797 (Buy it Now £500 !!) It looks clearly EF with lustre, but the hair detail doesn't look quite crisp to me - it could be a case of the Heaton Mint overusing dies, as they so clearly did with the 1918/1919 pennies. What do you guys think?

The date numerals look a bit thin compared to the two I have, especially the loop of the 5 Yes, it's perfect in its design, but the field to the left of the lion looks especially suspect, and the 05 looks off colour too. Not to mention the suspicious flaking around the monarch's name. 1905 halfcrowns are especially notorious for forgeries, so no reason to suppose the shilling wouldn't also come in for 'treatment'. Pity, it's a beautiful looking copy - but the current bid of £22 says it all really. That's maybe what I'd pay for a nice replica space filler too (if I'd had a drink or two...)

Interesting. The GVLIELMS variety is listed in Spink, but the BRITANEIA isn't (and it seems quite clearly to be an E doesn't it?) There are lots of error types for William III copper, including a BRIVANNIA listed as Extremely rare, so I'd send yours up to Spink perhaps, or the Royal Mint, and see if you can get a verdict on it?

Where are these different silver Edward VII obverses listed and described, out of interest?

I have never used numbering systems, for one very simple reason : grading is something of an imprecise, subjective art which the traditional method is very suited to. We can all agree that a coin is "broadly" VF, but one person might say NVF, another VF, another GVF. At least VF is a common factor there which means that everyone agrees there is SOME wear, but very much of the detail survives. But how on earth do you fix on something so exact as a number, e.g. 55? The same situation applies, in that ten different people might rate the same coin at a different number on the scale of 50 to 60 (and Americans would use a higher number as their EF is our VF, and their AUnc is our EF etc). Who decides, finally? What I've sometimes thought is this : keep the traditional grades but apply a number from 0 to 3 after each. So VF0 is 'almost' or 'about' VF, VF1 is spot on, VF2 is better than, while VF3 would be closer to EF than VF. Or you could use '-' and '+' : VF- VF VF+ VF++ I think a numbering system as they suggest would be too unwieldy and no better than the plethora of grades used now. In fact it would be more confusing because people trust numbers more than letters as being precise, whereas it's still only an estimate after all! Anyway, that's my twopence halfpenny worth.

If they go with option ( I guess we will see "RARE UNDATED" gold piedfort 50 pences turning up on eBay?

I thought it might be just Watched items, but I've just been in and looked at a coin I wasn't watching, and still got the countdown. One thing's for sure, it doesn't appear until the item only has a short time left to run - less than an hour? That "Buy it now" at £110 is way overpriced. For one thing it's only EF (or a weak strike), but also it's not the rare variety! The seller thinks it is, and told me it was bought as such, so I kept shtum so as not to cause deep worry or offence. But I'd rate that as no more than a £50 coin. Spink aren't the "be all and end all" I agree, but I'd trust their judgement on values any day over bid-happy eBayers. Insurers regard Spink as "the bible", and most serious dealers do too. If you buy a coin on eBay at twice Spink, the insurers won't pay more than (2/3) Spink in the event of loss.

A little bird tells me that winning bid of £5,100 isn't going to be paid ...

PS what's a "collectee"?? I'd say coins were collectees if anything is! We are collectors ... And if I had a time machine I would go back and put a bullet in the head of the ignoramus who invented the word "attendee", which started this whole confusion (obsessive about grammar, me? oh no, you must be thinking of someone else .. )

That's where the radio controlled clock comes in handy. I've found that if you make your bid on the 2nd button, with 12 seconds to go, you'll usually get in with just 3 or 4 seconds left, depending on how fast your browser is. I didn't bid on this coin in the end, though. Was going to, but getting too close to the end of the month. Payday is not until Friday Sorry you weren't successful, Peckris. Oh well, he obviously wanted it bad, so good luck to him. At least I made him pay what it's worth. As for the radio controlled clock - that's not needed! eBay have introduced this cool facility for your Watched items, that counts down the clock in real time and updates bids and tells you your status, without you having to refresh your browser.

TBH I'm not familiar with any Edward VII silver obverse varieties - they are not mentioned in Sealy (1970) so this is all new to me. I'm aware there are several penny obverse varieties, all listed in Gouby, but that's all I know.

Before you give up completely, you could always jot down a quick list of the coins - denomination and date - then upload it in a reply here as a Word file attachment, and we could have a quick look down it and see if there is anything that stands out. Do be aware that any silver coins before 1947 are 50% real silver and can be sold very easily; likewise before 1920 they are near solid silver (ditto). Otherwise, as a (very) quick guide : shillings dated 1959 with a single upright lion on the reverse are scarce and worth about £1 in average condition. 1930 and 1925 are scarce(ish), and anything before 1911 is ok, especially Edward VII. For sixpences, it's a similar story except the one to look out for is 1952 (£1 - £2 in average condition), then 1923, 1917, and anything before 1911. There's quite a few scarce or rare pennies : 1953, 1951, 1950, 1926, 1919/1918 with a tiny KN or H to the left of the date. Most of what I've mentioned isn't worth very much unless in pretty exceptional condition. And anything in mint condition, or near mint, or at least very fine before 1937, is worth something.