Peckris

It was more to check that I am grading properly. I'm trying to find pennies in EF condition at a decent price. But thanks for the warning about the colour; I can't tell yet whether an odd shade is from the metal composition or having been cleaned. You're not alone there. Many of us would be hard pushed to tell with that particular coin or one like it. Copper and bronze is an absolute b****** for differing colourations. Often you'd need to see it in hand. Check the seller has a 'Returns' policy before jumping in.

The young lady in that picture is safe enough, with Cliff Richard 'perched' right above her.

If rubbing/dusting with a cloth leaves hairlines, then it's cleaning by my definition. Where does one draw the line on your side of the pond? I'm asking this because I really want to know. I would never rub a coin with any type of cloth as it will always impart hairlines. Peck said "rubbing with the wrong kind of cloth"...I don't know of any "right" kind of cloth. Two things here : 1. Rubbing with a cloth can leave faint lines that are only on the 'film' around the coin, i.e. they're not permanent, and could be washed off. That's what I was referring to - if they are permanent striations then I agree with you - CLEANED! 2. The "right" kind of cloth is a microfibre cloth - if it won't scratch the lenses in my spectacles, it won't scratch a metal coin!! Your local optician will have them, or maybe you can Google them?

Yes, I'd say your grading is pretty good. The reverse is not far off EF, and your valuation takes into account that it's quite a common penny. It's POSSIBLY been cleaned at some point, but it may just be the photo.

Welcome Clueless - love your movie!

Just FYI: There are Talers with this same design feature from ca. 1650 that pre-date G2 silver coinage. It wouldn't surprise me if ancients existed with a similar design also (that's outside of my experience/knowledge). I presume the symbolism is one of royalty and strength? That sounds a likely enough reason (as long as they're not basing it on Richard Coeur de Lyon, one of the biggest twats in history )

720 also looks like what you want.

Yeah, but Dave - the Scottish pound (as it exists currently) is actually just the £ Sterling rebadged, as it is - and always has been - tied to the value of the BoE pound. If the BoE refused to make any such correlation between the Scottish and UK £, the Scottish £ would 'float free'. That could result in it going either up or down relatively, either scenario bringing potential problems. As for Trident, *I* don't want it either; I see it as a colossal waste of money compared to the much smaller amount of money that would be needed to counter terrorism, which is the modern menace, not Soviet SAM missiles. But it does exist and the British Government isn't going to remove it. Meanwhile it's providing a lot of jobs for Scots as do Naval contracts on Clydeside. I agree with you 100% about foodbanks BTW.

Is the face on the shoulder of the Middlesex one intentional? It's a lion.

I keep hearing Salmon say that "Scotland will keep the pound £". Erm, how will that happen if the remaining UK decides they can't? What will they tie the Scottish Pound to, when all's said and done - the Euro? And when Westminster decides that Faslane will close and Trident moved to Teesside instead, how will that improve the Scottish economy? Not to mention all the RN warships that get built on Clydeside? Oh, that's right, I forgot - the infinite supply of North Sea Oil...

I think probably the first - there's more contrast and therefore relief, and there isn't the flash reflection.

I haven't changed my opinion.There's no evident wear, so I'm sticking with AUNC

Florin? I thought he only did shillings?

ROFL Bagerap Makes up for the fact there is no link in Stuart's original post.

These tokens are becoming increasingly appealing to me. The scope for collecting is a little overwhelming though. Do you have any particular collecting goals Brandon or just whatever pieces take your fancy? I collect the tokens with horses on them -- and, any others that strike my fancy along the way. I never understood the "fill this hole in my album" method of collecting. I much prefer to collect what I like, even if it seems a bit scattered to others. I guess it depends if - like me - you started out as a date run collector (with a bit of 'type' and 'haphazard' thrown in) then converted to type collecting. Having said that, I do like my date run of bronze pennies but draw the line at getting every micro-variety.

I think en-medaille, upright, or inverted are more sensible terms than 'horizontal' or 'vertical'. One person may be talking about an axis (though this isn't a geometry class!), whereas I was using the everyday sense of the plane you rotate something in - horizontal if both sides are the same way up, and vertical if they are at 180º to each other. The two arrow convention (↑↑ and ↑↓) is clearest of all, which I suspect is why catalogues like Spink's use it.

Thanks for the info Rob. I'll keep looking out for a topnotch currency 1806 halfpenny though it might be a long wait.

Agreed. I think the strike is one reason why they are so difficult to find compared with the penny and farthing - perhaps there was some problem with the halfpennies as they rarely have that desired crispness? Gorgeous reverse though.

They might not be scratches, but traces left by rubbing with the wrong kind of cloth? At any rate, I find it hard to see anything more than very slight rubbing in places, and no actual wear anywhere. I'd say it was virtually 'as struck' and therefore AUNC.

They would not slab it due to the verdigris. The 'verdigris' is inactive - a coin green from being buried keeps that patina forever, and doesn't deteriorate further; there's often no pitting either, just a glossy green finish. However, someone ought to authenticate it before it goes into auction, as that will ensure a good price for it.

Argument summarised in a nutshell: 1. American TPGs are better at American coins (PGCS, NGC, etc) - the British slabber CGS is better for UK coins 2. Americans are mad for slabs and many won't buy a coin unless it's slabbed, not having bothered to learn the art of coin grading for themselves 3. Therefore slabbing is taking off in a big way as Americans are the biggest coin market by far 4. British collectors are more reluctant to see their coins 'entombed' though CGS are trying to change that 5. If you've already got a collection in cabinets and trays, there's no easy way to fit slabs into that system 6. Not all slabbed coins are actually authentic despite the guarantee (Chinese fakes fool even the experts) 7. Many slabbed coins command a massive premium on eBay, even among British buyers

He will politely tell you what the initials stand for, then he will PM you giving more information

No - you rotate the coin either horizontally or vertically. If the sides are the same orientation, you rotate horizontally, if 180º degrees apart, you rotate vertically.

It's actually the other way about - Geo III is horizontal (↑↑) while George IV is vertical (↑↓). I suspect you have good examples? Mind you, there ARE a lot of contemporary forgeries, but they are silver-washed copper, so they're pretty obvious.