Peckris

1862 is another year with often excellent strikes, as is your Peckris. Not a detail missing from that coin. Thanks. There are little bits of slight corrosion around the rim as you can see, plus a few areas of very light and shallow surface ?corrosion? (or rusting die?) on the bust, which is probably why I was able to pick it up for £1 from a dealer tray at the Midland in the 1990s

The scan seemed to translate better into monochrome, so this is that one : It does at least show the broader rim and defined toothed border. The colour is so uniform, the details so clear and sharply defined, and the edge / rim so different than normal pennies, plus it has a kind of prooflike sheen when viewed at certain angles, that it really does make me think it could be some kind of specimen strike.

It does seem possible. My own example is an 1862 not 1863, and I'm afraid the scans I have are pretty lamentable, but to show the colour similarity, here is the original scan of the reverse :

I believe the whole bailout started at Northern Rock (an English Bank who incurred Bad debts from the USA i believe, oh those colonies) Of course RBS were in the firing line. But it was far from THE only bank to be bailed outLloyds TSB was the other main recipient, probably even more so than the RBS. However that was caused by its disastrous rescue - at the Government's behest - of the doomed HBOS, of which The Bank of Scotland was the largest constituent. Having said that, I think it's unfair to blame Scotland for the failures of its bankers, as the City didn't come out of it too well either, nurturing institutions who all colluded in the creation of financial 'instruments' that were basically a double indemnity gamble to ensure that if the dodgy credit and shaky mortgages they were all underwriting came home to roost, they would still come up smiling and smelling of roses. I wouldn't want to see Britain lose Scotland from the Union. If that happened, only little Wales would be a bastion against the selfish, self-interested Toryism of the English Southeast, and they would probably react by going all Plaid Cymru, and seeking the same kind of independence as Scotland (though in the Welsh case it would be a total disaster for them). One fascinating alternative would be to see Wales become what it was in the early days of the Saxon kingdoms, where Wales took in Cornwall, the entire English NorthWest, and even a bit of Scotland. How about this for a new division : Scotland Wales + Cornwall + the NorthWest of England (the Celtic fringe) Yorkshire + the NorthEast (the Danelaw) the rest of England and Northern Ireland would be forced to make up its own mind - united Ireland, or part of England?

Now that's a very interesting discussion. What do you make of this catalogue footnote to the sale of an 1874H penny by DNW in 2006: FootnotePeriodically, the Heaton mint struck carefully finished ‘specimen’ coins of varying denominations as an example of what the company could produce; in some instances they were presented as gifts to dignitaries and government officials and in other cases were part of the travelling portfolio of a Heaton sales representative (cf. Gunstone, SNC December 1977, p.545; cf. Tansley Collection, DNW 67, lot 369). Truly genuine Heaton mint proofs of this period (cf. Adams lot 268 = SNC April 2005, 2467) are exceedingly rare; most of those so catalogued in the Freeman sale were in fact ‘specimens’ That's fascinating. Presumably though, such specimens had the H mintmark?

The greatest sense spoken on the matter, David... I also definitely agree with DaveG's observations on the nitty gritty of it all!I'd say your view David is enlightened in its origin, and a refreshing change to the common view on things! Hear hear

Yes, that's very prooflike in appearance. I have a very similar 1863 (or is it 1862? One or the other..) : dark patina and quite wide rims with strong even toothed border. It does make you wonder if they struck 'specimen' examples that weren't actual proofs but specially prepared and struck?

As opposed to rich kid, bully boy, hypocrite Cameron making his lofty pronouncements from 10, Mount Olympus?

"Please enable cookies in your browser to display the rest of this article." Since I only block cookies from "third parties and advertisers", what the feck is it talking about? As for Scottish independence, although I don't want it to happen, if it does happen and England / Wales vote to leave the EU, then I hope Scotland votes to stay in, leaving the pathetic SouthEast 'Little Englanders' increasingly isolated on the edge of the Atlantic with nothing but dreams of former Empire to keep themselves warm on the long long cold nights of self-deluded self-importance.

That's true for the US I'm sure, but the observations I've seen here are that they are not so good with UK coins.

The 1912 is priced as it is due to market demands I'm thinking - it's the only way some collectors could afford a high grade GV H penny. Also, they are usually much better strikes. My own assessment of rarity of the others is : 1919H 1918H and KN (KN a bit scarcer) 1919KN with quite a gap between each group. However, I've learned comparatively recently how difficult it is to find high grade 19H's, which is probably why they are now so high priced : it's arguably nearly as scarce in top grades as the KN?

That's insulting docile sheep - it looked like a bog-standard Vectra with good wheels and a quiet little badge. Let's face it, the Vectra was one of worst decisions Vauxhall ever took, especially as it involved killing the Cavalier with the golden eggs. But that sporty version was something else, once you were behind the wheel and lording it over everyone who thought it was 'just a bloody Vectra'.

I think I drove one of those when I was a Vauxhall fleet driver some years ago? I remember trying to shift from 3rd to 4th as I joined a motorway, only to find the bloody gearbox wouldn't respond. Then I realised I was still in 2nd, doing 55 mph!! It was nice cruising up alongside some boy racer in a fancy Mitsubishi looking for all the world as though I was struggling to get past him, and seeing the laugh on his face as he gradually increased the speed to stop me, vanish rather suddenly as I tickled the accelerator and left him for dead.

Yes of course. That's why proofs exist - to show the amazing crispness of the original design. As for BU, just have a look at the Machin obverse design for EII contemporary with that peso above - it's as non-crisp as they come.

The obverse is not so much a 'good strike', as what one would expect from any decent GV obverse under normal circumstances (WW1 being far from normal of course). However, an obverse strike like that one, is usually accompanied by a Britannia reverse not fully struck up - particularly on the face and chest - due to the 'sucking away' of metal from the reverse. However, that particular reverse is quite superb, and that example would command a high premium and be much in demand if it appeared on the market. Clearly they both used slightly different alloys - that would explain why Heaton pennies are nearly all black (or darker than RM) and K.N. - who supplied blanks to the RM over quite a few years - are very often reddish. But the dies they used were provided by RM and presumably all they did was to punch in the H / KN? I imagine that the Mint, who used dies to wear beyond normal during the War, told their subcontractors not to worry too much about wear, which explains why you see it so often. I don't know what their processes were, but Heatons had been used to mint bronze since the 1870s, so I imagine they were subject to RM approval and inspection? Sorry if I'm a bit behind the curve here as I've been on holiday. The subject of the 18-19 H & KN pennies interests me immensely (we can forget 12 altogether as this supposed 'rarity' is purely down to hype). Both KNs seem to be much rarer than their H bretheren, but as a collector from change before decimalisation it always appeared that the 1919H was far more common than the 18 and yet, panning forward at least 45 years the 19 is much rarer in high grade and in my mind usually better struck. I am not sure I agree with you, Peck on the alloy used by King's Norton - they presumably had to adhere quite closely to Royal Mint specifications which would,I imagine, have been fairly stringent. I have a feeling of deja vu here somewhere but it is my opinion that the source of the metal and the level of impurities in it is likely to have been just as significant - King's Norton must always have used metal from the same source, hence the consistency of tone, whereas the Royal Mint and Heatons whose products both show variation of tone could have obtained their metal from multiple sources. To illustrate what I mean, check the differences in tone exhibited by the 'pure' copper issues from before 1860; no question of metal mix there but the colour range is still pretty wide with some years being consistently one tone whereas other years will be completely different. I wonder if this subject has ever been covered by the BNJ - looks like the sort of thing they might be interested in? Yes, I agree. My wording was a little careless perhaps. But it is indisputable that KN blanks and pennies do have this characteristic redness, which can only be accounted for by the quality and source of the metal (presumably copper) used. Birmingham being the heart of the metals industry - foundries, gunmaking, jewellery, chains, household goods, coins and tokens, etc - would use their own sources, unlike London perhaps. Though it's odd that Heatons - also a Birmingham firm - would have a completely different colour. Theory : Kings Norton produced their own blanks, but Heatons were supplied by the RM in a tradition going back to the 1870s? OR.. Heatons were the major supplier of blanks TO the RM under normal circumstances?

I agree. With something like a 1917 penny (not rare or expensive) it doesn't hurt to keep both. I have two 1911 and two 1913 pennies - both identical varieties - simply because I might have upgraded the lustre but didn't want to lose a crisp strike. Keep them both!

No, you weren't rinsed. Admittedly there are a LOT of 1787 silver coins out there in high grade, but yours is no disgrace and I'd certainly be pleased to get one at that price. Absolutely, Garrett! I use an average of 4: CCGB, BCMV, CYB, and Spink (everyone OK with those acronyms?), then chuck my own sales records in for good measure. Quite often all the books are miles out from what I think I could reasonably get for a coin. Any eBay coinie who has been playing this silly game for a while now would no doubt say the same. I used to get very sour with BCMV as their prices were always considerably lower than everyone else's, and I never quite understood where they were getting them from? I'm not sure if that's still the case though - they may have got more of a reality check these days.

Bargain! If that is MS65, someone should have an example that was too good to fit on the Sheldon scale - so they refused to slab it. Obviously wear to the hair, bun and wreath means nothing. Indeed, very noticeable wear on the reverse too! That's odd, I thought the "both Gs over" variety was more obvious than that one appears to be?

I agree, that IS difficult! Had the description not suggested otherwise, I'd have said it looks right for the grade, and an example of what I was talking about! The obverse is horribly baggy, of course, but that isn't something that should unduly affect the lustre quality!Without the benefit of seeing the coin in-hand, my instinct would say typo or ignorance?? With the description attached, however, I wouldn't buy it on the images (though I would otherwise), I'd want to see it in the flesh! Edit: even the print on the reverse, whilst undesirable (though I'm not too stressed about 'attractive' prints), is generally a sign of a better coin, lustre-wise? I agree with Stuart - if I'd not seen the photo, I'd say it's usually pretty obvious. But that one isn't at all obvious. On the other hand, I would take London's word on it, as they've seen it in hand and presumably it's more obvious?

There's a duck below Mrs Peter? Och Donald, where's yer troosers...

Both in the 2:45 at Towcester? I'd say Slippery Sam for sure - he's carrying less weight, did well in the Novices Hurdles, and is a much better price than Jota, who for my money is an overrated bet and his jockey has been recently changed.

No, "retoning" is the standard jargon. It is dealer-speak for "you can still see it was once cleaned so it hasn't retoned back completely yet, but is an ongoing process..". But then, I haven't seen the particular coin you're talking about.

George III is an excellent reign to choose - it's more varied even than Victoria, with all kinds of coin revolutions taking place over its 60 years; it's fair to say that when it began, Britain was in the early milled era, but when it ended the coinage we were familiar with up to decimalisation, was in place. Of course, that coincides with the Industrial Revolution, which makes it even more interesting. There are quite a lot of high grade issues you could place in the 'affordable' bracket (certainly relative to any previous reign): 1787 shillings and sixpences; coppers from 1799 - 1807; shillings and sixpences from 1816; even halfcrowns and crowns are not out of reach in VF or VF+. Nor indeed are coppers 1770-75, or the two cartwheel denominations. Tokens are relatively cheap ... the list goes on.

That's fascinating David - it looks from that, that the RM pre-engraved the H & KN on the dies? It would make sense, as punching tiny letters onto individual dies would be an irregular and inconsistent thing for the recipients.

Ah that explains it - I've had a post go missing this evening, and also seen a two-weeks' old topic appear in New Content, when there isn't any.