Beebman

A little time ago I found an interesting article in ‘The Times’ of Thursday January 7th 1869 (I’ve access to the online archive at work) about the age of coinage then in circulation. It only refers to gold coinage but it’s an interesting snapshot nonetheless. A Mr Stanley Jevons, Professor of Political Economy at Owens’ College, Manchester, asked some 200 banking places across England to assist him with a survey of 100,000 full sovereigns and 100,000 half-sovereigns in circulation in March 1868 to ascertain their date of minting. The results were as follows: Pre-1820: 207 full and 523 half 1820-1829: 7,402 full and 1,303 half 1830-1839: 6,979 full and 1,141 half 1840-1849: 16,935 full and 16,302 half 1850-1859: 28,612 full and 40,060 half 1860-1867: 38,246 full and 39,593 half (it’s noted that 18,671 of the full sovereigns had the dates 1863 or 1864) Australian: 1,619 full and 1,078 half. (It was also noted that the Bank of England had in its vaults some 600,000 full sovereigns unissued due to lack of demand, which could explain why there were none minted in 1867!) 434 of the full sovereigns were also assessed in Manchester to see if they retained the correct legal weight for gold. Those from the 1860s were all OK. Of those from the 1850s “many were notâ€, of those from the 1840s the average weight of all of them was just below the level, and of those dated 1817-1829 the average weight of all of them was one full grain below. It was calculated that on average a sovereign would fall below the legal level after 18 years’ circulation. I hope that’s of interest to any gold coin collectors with a TARDIS who are thinking of setting it to sometime in the mid-to-late 19th century!

I've blown up your picture and I see a slight smudge wher the H would be I don't have the books next to me. seem to recall 1882 no H has a different die combination, so Hi res scans both sides please Fingers crossed for you! David Looks like F12 to me, as the eye is quite palpably closer to the bridge of the nose on F11, which the 1882 without a H is solely described as being. So either tooled, or the photo does not show up the H for whatever reason. Definitely an 1882H and I got all over excited for nothing. Sorry for the fuss, people. A few weeks ago Bernie Workman posted a picture of his excellent London 1882 Penny: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5326&view=findpost&p=41765 To me the eye does indeed look closer to the bridge of the nose on Bernie's coin.

I'll second that, I bought a copy last month and it has an amazing amount of info not available elsewhere including detailed price values of each variation by condition. And yes there are umpteen variations unknown to Freeman - for example the F15 has 7 different variations listed by Gouby depending on such things as the ribbon cut, the hair on Vicky's nape, the colon dots in F:D: - my mind has yet to stop boggling!

This one gobsmacked me a couple of weeks ago: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1861-queen-victoria-penny-ex-condition-/110587958044 However I think it's an F32 (6+F)? If so then Gouby gives a rarity value of R8 which is "10-25 possibly known" so maybe the price is right!

I did ask that a few weeks ago. I had a contact from CCC re the first part and there is just a whiff, the merest hint that they might have their knickers in a twist over exactly who bid on what. I don't know for sure, we shall have to wait and see how the whole thing plays out. Re the part two though, to capture the mood of todays triumph in the Ryder cup, you would have thought that they would put their strongest offerings out first in the hope of generating interest. Again, we shall see. There's a full-page colour advert from CCC in the October "Coin News" for Part 2 of the sale in which the following eight coins are shown: 1875 Bronze Proof F81 1868 Cupronickel Proof F57 1867 Bronzed Proof F54 1862 3 Plumes variety F39* (Satin 43) 1860 Beaded Border 'mule' (Satin 2) 1869 F59 1865/3 F51 1875H F85 (wide date)

I've been watching with interest the continuing bidding for the 1860 F8d 1*+C (Lot 4) and I see today that it's been sold for £4950 after 33 bids. I was wondering if it might make £5000 but it's still a great result for James!

The Colin Cooke site also has a couple of other good sales of pennies from the past with varieties for study: Crocker Collection: http://www.colincooke.com/coinpages/the_crocker_collection_of_pennies.html Alderly Collection: http://www.colincooke.com/coinpages/alderlycollection.html Also the Dix Noonan Webb site has archived the sale in 2006 of the Laurie Bamford Victorian Penny collection - it's lots 1 to 204 from the auction at the link below: http://www.dnw.co.uk/coins/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/results.lasso?SkipRecords=0&&date=20+Jun+06&MaxRecords=50

I've just noticed that the first bids are now on the Workman sale page.

1949 Victoria Godless Florin??? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1949-VICTORIA-GODLESS-FLORIN-EXCELLENT-HIGH-GRADE-COIN-/350392372409

Wow, just wow Double wow! David Triple wow! By the way what's the general opinion about the results of pennies in the London Coins sale on Sunday? (link here: http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/index.php?page=Pastresults) On the one hand rare stuff went for crazy prices (e.g. £3200 for a 1860 F8A 1*+A) but on the other some more common types went for rather low prices in spite of being UNC with lustre (e.g. only £48 for an 1885). David

I've probably got a little too much time at work today but as I've got access to the online archive of the Times Newspaper up until 1985 I thought I'd have a look to see what I could find with reference to the 1933 penny. 1. 18/08/1965 - Mint Explodes Myth Of 1933 Penny Article about the publication of that year's Royal Mint annual report in which the locations are known of a total of six 1933 pennies and it says that all the others with that date which have been submitted to the Mint are fakes. 2. 20/03/1969 - 1933 Penny Is Sold For £2,600 Report of a sale of a 1933 Penny at Gledinings Auction. No indication of provenance is given but "The Royal Mint, although authenticating the present specimen, could not account for it". 3. 24/03/1969 - 1933 Penny In Man's Change Just 4 days later a Mr Noel Tringham of Flintshire found a 1933 Penny in his change in his ex-servicemen's club. (there is no follow-up article to this.) 4. 17/12/1969 - 1d May Be Worth £3,000 A Mr George Atkinson of Lichfield in Staffs found a 1933 penny in the money collected in his part-time newspaper round. (again there is no follow-up article to this.) 5. 20/11/1972 - Rare 1933 Penny In Auction Sale This Week Report that Sotheby's are to sell the specimen from under the foundation stone of St.Mary's, Hawksworth Wood. ("Reflecting sadly that even church property is no longer sacred.") 6. 25/11/1972 - £7,000 Paid For Rare 1933 Penny Report that the £7,000 price was paid at Sotheby's for the whole set of 1933 coins from the church. The only later mention I can find is in a Spink's display ad of 08/11/1985 announcing a forthcoming auction which includes the sale of a 1933 penny from the Norweb collection.

I've found a lower-spec version for 80 quid plus VAT: http://www.absolute-data-services.co.uk/dinolite_am211.htm I'm wondering if this might be good enough simply for scanning my collection for insurance record purposes. (and to post pictures here to ask for info! )

It's made the national news! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302005/1933-penny-coin-valued-80k-offered-eBay-suddenly-withdrawn.html

In last night's edition of 'The One Show' there was a report from the Royal Mint at Llantrisant regarding fake £1 coins which itself was interesting as there was mentioned the possibility of replacing the current coin if too many forgeries got into circulation. After an archive film from the 60s about Decimal coinage, the reporter Lucy Segal was in the studio holding a 1933 Penny to the camera. She said that it was incredibly rare "because not many were produced because they didn't need them", but "you still find some around".(???) She said it was worth £65,000 but Gabby Logan (one of the two hosts) had to correct her by remarking that at rehearsals it had been worth only £45,000! The show is currently available on the BBC iPlayer (UK only) here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tfr50/The_One_Show_09_08_2010/ The 'coin' section of the show starts at 15.06. David

I remember it like it were yesterday... It was a great time for schoolboys like me to ferret through their loose change, but raities didn't crop up every 5 minutes - in fact most people that checked their change found sweet Fanny Adams, but there was always the chance. Perhaps the most interesting thing I found was an 1872 florin, but purely for its interest value, the only recognisable thing about it was the date! By 15 February 1971 there were very, very few Victorian pennies left in circulation, most having been withdrawn during the sixties as underweight. Nonetheless with the possibility of having no less than 5 monarch's faces on the coins in your pocket, currency was infinitely more interesting than today. I suppose by that time the vast majority were reduced to little more than flat discs. I was eight in 1969/70 when I started to take an interest in coins, mainly pennies because I could afford to keep them out of my pocket money! My late father owned a small shop and he let me go through the takings each night to look for anything interesting. As said elsewhere, Victoria Old Head pennies were very common (but not halfpennies, although I did find a couple). As for Bun Heads I found about eight over the course of the year. Only one was a completely worn flat disc, the others all had recognisable dates although most of the features and legend were well worn. The only one I found in anything like a reasonable condition was an 1892 example which was in a comparable state to the average Old Head of the time, i.e. clear legends in spite of heavy wear. As for silver I never remember seeing anything pre-1920 apart from one 1919 shilling which I still have, it's in quite reasonable (maybe VG) condition which makes me wonder if it had been in a collection. My cousin was amazed at the time to find an 1874 halfcrown in his change which he gave to me (and again I still have it), it's worn very flat but the date is readable.

I was seriously going to suggest George II !! (The triple tie band behind head would seem to suggest it). But worthless, even so, sadly. Thx for your suggestions - the reverse side is worn flat. I first started collecting coins when I was at Uni back in the 60's. It was triggered by me finding a lusterous 1908 Penny VF+ in my loose change - someone must have been very annoyed losing that ! I still have a GVF 1909 halfpenny I found while doing the 'bank bag shuffle' in the 60s. That's one thing I curse decimalisation for - the loss of all those opportunities. Likewise - my best 'bank bag shuffle' result was a GVF 1919 shilling which I still have.

Hi Dave, I've just sent you an order via Paypal for both books. Regards, David

I've been lurking for a while without posting, I keep meaning to introduce myself, this thread has finally got me to do that! Like quite a few people I started in the last couple of predecimal years when as a schoolkid I started to take an interest in the coinage which was about to disappear. It was the occasional appearance of Bun pennies in my parents' change which really sparked my interest and I managed to save about a dozen or so (all of scrap quality of course, but I still have them). I started to save my pocket money to buy a few coins from a local dealer but they were mostly of Fair or at best Fine quality. The pride of my collection was a VF 1853 halfpenny! But soon after D-Day I lost interest - until last year. I found myself having to look after my elderly mother who had become terminally ill and that meant many long evenings staying in and browsing the Internet for something to do while she slept. One night I decided to look and see what sort of coins were selling on eBay - and within a short time I found myself a collector again after a gap of nearly 40 years! I decided to keep to themes and to collect as many examples as I could of my favourites - copper YH and bronze Bun Head Victoria pennies, Gothic florins and Edward VII florins. I tried to keep to around VF quality but better if I could afford it (although of course I had to make do with lesser quality for rarer stuff). However I got diverted somewhat by 'discovering' early milled silver! I mostly used eBay but I did get to a couple of London coin fairs. Sadly my mother passed away a little while ago and since then my collecting has come to a complete standstill while I've been sorting out things. I think I'll continue to take a break from collecting for a while longer while I decide my way forward. I mentioned early milled silver and I wish now that maybe I hadn't decided to go for date ranges of pennies and florins and instead bought more examples of 17th/18th century types. I also acquired a couple of Victoria shieldback sovereigns and one day I'd like to have a few more gold pieces in my collection.