azda

Geez a CC for gunmoney??????????

Divemaster, it's nothing to do with you mentioning Proofs, it's to do with fakes and fake slabs that are kicking about........Calm down and take a breath.............

Totally agree Peter, many people here who give their expert opinions and don't take any BS either. I for one am glad i joined this very forum 2 ish years ago, it's been a great learning curve, although hammered still eludes me

I was checking through the James Workman collection to see if it had one for pies to compare and came accross that Blazing BU pullava that CC is now throwing into descriptions and got annoyed sorry. Anyhoo, nothing in the Workamn sale for a comparission for you pies. In their Edinburgh sale they also have an 1875H for 1350 quid, i personally think the one i sold was better for 400

I see CC are now using other forms of words to exagurate a coin such as "BMC 1670. F52. Dies 6+G. Blazing BU Full Lustre, exceptional......Ran out of things to say and now using ebay text

Ok, only a curious question about the fine work one, but what would you expect to pay for one of those if it came up for sale? Looking for ballpark as i know how it can escelate into 10 times the figure etc, so a reality price

Just goes to show, if you're a British coin collector, and a fan of slabs, then go with CGS.............Simple, you just cannot trust an American grade or slab now as the slabs are now being faked to.........Its a small warning for the future of this hobby, also a good heads up from Stuart (Coinery) just goes to show that when you know your onions it's good knowledge, so hats off to Stuart for picking up on this coin

Luckily for the people living in the following countries - Africa, Russian Federation, Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine the seller is not willing to flood the market with the copies. Leaving aside the question of NGC's competence which it appears is a given, I actually wonder about the seller here. We have a listing that is priced in US$. The location of the item is Paris. The ebay id has a stop in the middle of the name which is very reminiscent of a number of Yorkshire and Lancashire based purveyors of this crap who ebay refused to deal with. Can't help wondering if there is a connection. Lots of things have been bought from China too. Given the coin has been physically handled prior to submission and they obviously feel and look wrong, any person submitting a coin will know that a pitted flan will lead to an environmental damage label, so the only reason to submit to the TPG is to accord the coin a genuine status - something which the Negligent Grading Committee have duly obliged. It now has an official seal of approval. I always wondered why the American TPGs withdrew their guarantees on world coins, but I thought they would still guarantee a coin as genuine. Methinks a large pointy hat with a big D on the front is appropriate. Why has he submitted this to NGC if he's in Paris, PCGS have an office in Paris now, why not send it there? Is he actually Fu Man Choo posing as a Frenchie?UPDATE..........Coin has been taken down

Ah ha, so NGC know sweet FA about what they're slabbing in other words The saddest thing of all is that this is a glaring fake in-hand, really obvious edges, thicker, and soapy enough to take a shower with! You've got to feel sorry for the eventual new owner because, as you said (and maybe this is part of NGC's gameplan), who's going to break it out and 'chance-it'? Best you can do is watch it and see if someone buys it, or send NGC a detailed email about the slab and hope that they'll change the details on their website and list it as fake?

This is the worrying thing, they have! NGC actually have the image of the fake on their website. The only glimmer of hope they have is that this is the original the fakes were cast from. Actually it can't be the original, as my fake has more outer-edge beading at the E&T of Elizabeth...hung, drawn & quartered! I've just realised it's the ebay coin 30/06/12 from the thread "Elizabeth Fake Groat on eBay" http://www.ebay.co.u...cvip=true&rt=nc NGC are over for me! Our very own argentumancoins (John) has sold to this guy as well. Wonder if he's gonna sell it onwards, page 3 of FB (Ireland 1604-7 James I Sixpence, Rose mm, bent flan. (#261071692744) Nothing untowards with John i might add, just curious if he's buying to make more cash, or if he's selling off more fakes and replacing them with genuine and cheaper articles

Ah ha, so NGC know sweet FA about what they're slabbing in other words

So the New seller bought it, shipped to NGC had it slabbed and stuck another 250 quid on it?

I think the whole thing is more worrying for the slab collectors. They would'nt dare liberate it so really won't know any better and basically keep it until they in turn come to sell it. I just wonder now how fake slabs are going to affect the TPGs market and what they're going to do to combat it. Without pictures of authenticity plus serial they might be on a sticky wicket.

Wait Till Peckris finds that spelling error

I think sometimes people forget that there is grades under Finw, they certainly do in Germany, looks like its catching

Healthy indeed considering spink has them at about 3,5k in EF. Yet another rarity they don't rate. A mintage of over 600,000 coins, makes you wonder why a 1934 wreath is priced so low in comparisson

Welcome Matty, most here are older collectors, 1 is even prehistoric hope you enjoy your stay.

There is already an app its called IP Board its what i'm using now to reply to a coin forum, the only Feature it does'nt have is the ability to upload poctures

Hmmmmm, nope lol

'Top Grade i'd take as UNC as UNC is top grade?It's a good grade though

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others! Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400 Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine: Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book. Yes, much the same as his latest edition. It might just make VF+ though, as the wear is marginally less, but there's not much in it. There's to much wear to Britannias hand, legs, breast palte and helmet for me..........Obv, face and hair detail is to worn for an EF coin I completely agree. Hence my VF grade. Lucidio_8 is selling an 1826 Stephen, take a look.............Selling as UNC i think....., not as nice as your newbie

He's changed. Or else I didn't view a high enough sample of his coins turds. Good photography Peck

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others! Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400 Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine: Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book. Yes, much the same as his latest edition. It might just make VF+ though, as the wear is marginally less, but there's not much in it. There's to much wear to Britannias hand, legs, breast palte and helmet for me..........Obv, face and hair detail is to worn for an EF coin

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others! Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400 Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's only slightly better than mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine: Well you obviously missed mine for a few bucks Stephen

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others! Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400 I have been pleased so far with my first few purchases from Michael, most of which I saw 'in the flesh' at his shop ... I think you are a strict grader which is a good thing, but I have yet to buy from you! Here is my first purchase from Michael which perhaps colours my judgement!: Described as nVF and £210, which I thought was an extremely good buy ... other members' opinions may differ! I did visit him recently and he was upping his prices, stating that he could no longer buy the same coins in the same grades for what he was selling them for. And I have yet to/may not ever get into copper/bronze, which is undoubtedly a different area of expertise! Only going by personal experience of course, have been happy with John Newman lately (as I read so have others), while I feel Colin Cooke, Bucks Coins and INGRAM offerings are consistently over-graded and/or overpriced ... also noting that more and more 'bricks and mortar' / traditional dealers are listing on the Bay! Hmm. In that case I shall have to re-grade my Charles II crown, as I've always had it as GF. The reverse is about the same as yours, but I'd say the obverse was a bit better (though later obverse of course). Yours has more wear Peck than Pauls, more wear to the face, nose etc. I'd still say Pauls was NVF...........As always, only my opinion, a picture of the 2 coins in the flesh would be good