Farmer Palmer

Thank you gentlemen , ill explain my interest in value.I had one of these in my collection , not quite sure when or where i bought it.I had a bit of a clear out as i intend concentrating on British Florins and Maundy 4d's. I put the token on Ebay and sure enough just as Colin says it fetched around the tenner.Well that was fine , its probably around what i paid so i was happy with the return of my money. A couple of days later i got messaged asking where i had got the coin.Any seasoned ebayer will tell you this is a huge warning sign , i worried im going to get negged for some obscure and unfair reason. I replied and next message was the buyer suspected its a counterfeit.This only deepened my sense of worry as i have an unblemished record as a seller for 3 years latterly. Again i replied and said i had no idea it might be a counterfeit , i get another message saying if its real its worth 1900 , i got another message saying the buyer reckoned its worth 90,000 ..of course im not so nieve to think its worth the fortune suggested as ebayers are no fools (mostly) and i coudldnt see a valuable coin slipping by all the dealers on the auction site. It left me wondering , what is the actual value typically.Im guessing it isnt 90,000 Thanks again guys for putting this one to bed.

Thanks ThreeP , im hopeful itll be here this week , it should be.I bought some novelty lighters from China to test mailing times , its about 9 days.I bought 3 items on 3 different days , all were within a fortnight easily. The fake coin is on day 10 or so , good chance ill see it tomorrow.What stuns me is i was a first time customer and asked to not have it stamped as a copy and it wasnt a problem , these messages are within my ebay message box. One down side is if and when the Chinese fakes dealer leaves feedback my integrity on ebay goes out the window.Itll be worth it to see just how good these fakes are though.

Im on the suspicious side of the fence , theres a few that just dont look right , sure they look real...just something overall not right.Members might be interested to know i bought a known fake recently , it was listed as fake. I asked the seller if its possible to not have it stamped "copy".I got the reply , not a problem. Ill post the fake and a real one when it arrives and we'll see how many can spot the fake.

Im not so sure anyone should blindly trust a dealer in any merchandise.The very nature of the game is to make a few quid,thats why they are dealers. It wouldnt be the first time an unexperienced seller undergraded a coin and was taken advantage of,thats the nature of ebay,people want a bargain. All credit to you for spotting what the seller appears to be doing,i honestly doubt its against ebay policy.I wouldnt always trust a 2nd hand car dealer any more than id trust a coin dealer.They are both out to maximise profit,they are not there to ensure we get a good deal.

From what i understand the guy bought a coin , cleaned it and resold it.I cant see how its stealing , surely buyer beware should always apply on ebay and more so with blast white coins.

Thank you very much guys , my only concern was if its genuine or not.The flash on my camera has much to answer for as the coin does not look as bland in hand , theres actually some nice lavender toning going on if tilted in the light. Ive weighed it and it comes in at 11.3gr which would be correct for this coin.Thanks again guys for confirmation,this is one i was worried about only because of condition.

Thats true and something to watch for i would think although without question toning is faked as often as coins are.Ive been watching intently a few of the Chinese sellers and they even fake the circulated look. Its a real minefield.Having said that,heres a shiny bauble ill put up on the chopping block for inspection,i bought it in good faith as genuine,i dont know if these coins are being faked but id imagine so.This one looks better in hand , the photos are many times enlarged so show the slightest inperfections as glaring scars,its not so in hand,its as close to UNC as im likely to see.

I was told yesterday by my English dealer that UK dealers will no longer buy 1763 shillings as there are far too many about.That i believe is just the start of it.

Valid points RR , however for some , by no means all..but some collectors look on a collection as an investment.One really cant avoid doing so if the collection becomes considerable.Even more so perhaps when the bulk is Silver and Gold. There have been a lot of hushed up reports about Gold being faked too , apparantly has been for some time.I think most people believe nothing is as heavy or as dense as gold , not even lead. The reports i read were that Tungston fits the bill perfectly and with a quick electroplating , looks and feels like gold. As you say , its a sad day if or when all coins will be encapsulated , i believe the top grading house slabs are already being faked long ago and it takes a knowledgable expert to spot the fake slab/authenticity.One would therefore imagine slabbing is not the answer.I dont know what is , but i firmly believe knowledge is our best defence in the meantime.

Being as we are all pretty much aware of whats happening with the fake coin scene and the standards being worked to,i wonder if it might be an idea to present clear photographs of these fakes when and should we come across them. Reasons why its a fake or whats apparant on it that discloses its fake would be ideal.Ive noticed the odd murmour of members wondering if they have a fake unknowingly amongst the collection,between us we should surely be able to establish genuine from fake out of our own collections. I know i have one or two that worry me , mainly because of the extremely fine conditions and thought that theres nothing to stop an unscrupulous dealer selling chinese fakes in the UK or anywhere else. If nothing else we settle our own minds for better or worse and maybe learn something.I havnt seen it being done anywhere else , its high time the fakes were out on the table so we can all see them i would think.

Its a good question and one i suspect that begs a question , how many would flip the coin on ebay if as mentioned a handsome figure had been put out on it. Its for sure a lot of seasoned ebayers have multiple id's , i think a lot more than would admit would get it on ebay pdq.Im speaking in terms of the modern chinese fakes only.Most of the contemporary fakes are pretty well known and avoidable.

Thats an interesting site , thank you.

Thanks for posting that Azda , id imagine with the correct lighting during the photo session that would fool a lot of people.I do get Chris's point on the matter of the real dangers,that being some counterfeiters are using the correct materials ie silver to create near perfect replicas. Currently and in latter years its been the American coins being copied,stands to reason as the Americans are coin collecting daft,they all do it.Whats worrisome is the possibility that British coins were being faked all along and trickled into the market rather than the torrent of US fakes we see daily.

What is AVG telling you in the message ? It sounds like its blocking it or the content.You'll know AVG is your Anti Virus guard , sometimes it can be over protective , more so if you havnt adjusted the settings which most people never do. A bit like email , often your email provider will block the content of an email , whether it be photographs or html , theres always an option to open it anyway.

Thanks lads , i think and hope we all learn from it.Its like Chris said (i think it was Chris) if they make thier dies from one coin and therefore all fakes will mirror that coin with all its quirks , we can start nailing these down. The shilling mentioned would be an excellent start , a gram light is a huge red flag unless its hammered and clipped.Ive seen the videos of inside Chinese fakes factories,ive seen the silver crowns coming off the line,it shocked me at the time but now im wondering why..we all know they fake the US silver dollars , why not the British crown and countless others. I agree with we shouldnt go down the road of naming/shaming a seller on suspicion as do so many other forums.Its between a buyer and a seller what transpires,auction feedback is there for a reason.Its adequate to be as prearmed as possible is the idea , identify whats being faked as the Americans have.

This is what im trying to get across , its already happening and has been for a while.The other good point made by Gary D was that the Chinese are already faking PCGS slabs.

I understand what your saying Chris , the problem with dealing strictly with recoqnised auction houses like the ones mentioned are that they are only ever likely to be selling the cream of the crop at very high prices.For the average collector looking to spend $100 or so on a coin , there might not be much to choose from. Its that market the Chinese are hitting hardest i think , sure they have some of the rarest coins known going for peanuts but in the main its the key dated US silver thats alarming. When i seen the Scottish hammered fakes ..well.. if i cant tell the difference i shouldnt be buying them,and thats a shame.Avoiding ebay is one thing but lets not hide our heads in the sand , it goes beyond ebay. I have a question , whether or not it can be answered i dont know.Ive been under the impression that a replica coin must have that stamped somewhere on the coin in order for it to be sold in the US , im unsure of UK law on the matter. That being the case in the US , and the law , why is it that ebay do nothing to halt the fakes coming in from China ? At times its patently obvious its very poor fakes and other times its high quality fakes. Why havnt the feds stepped in and said to ebay sort it or get shut down i wonder.Its not just coins either as we know. I realise shutting ebay down is unlikely but its one law for them and another for us , if i were to open shop selling fakes id be in jail before the day was out and my stock confiscated.

Hi Peckris , ive lost track now where most came from , private dealers with receipts , coin forums BST's , various auctions including ebay.I think its a far more serious problem than realised. For instance ive contacted about 10 full time dealers about this , guys ive spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars with and only one in England showed any level of concern. I suspect this is where a lot of the "dealers" are getting the finer examples which are so hard to resist.The Americans have it down to a fine art now and can spot most US counterfeits from China albeit the most slight differences.It hasnt stopped the fakes flooding the market , ebay positively encourages counterfeits it would seem and i believe thats the contact point for unscrupulous people to obtain these fakes. The way i see things is if the likes of myself a confessed coin addict and lifetime collector is ready to throw in the towel in order to salvage my investment before things are out of hand , whats the situation going to be in 10 years time ? i Cant be content to accept if it fools experts it should be good enough , that might change in years to come as it did with the US counterfeits.

Thanks Dave , i should say i never had any intention of purchasing from China , whats got me running scared is i built up what i consider a stunning collection of British silver and for the most part in extremely fine to near mint state.You can imagine the cost involved,i purchased from the UK and USA but im forced to think , whats to stop western dealers or wannabe's buying the fakes and selling them from a "safe" location? It not only possible but id bet its already happening. Im teetoring on the edge of selling the collection and getting out while the gettings good.

I knew about chinese coin factorys , whats got me rattled is these are all British classics this guy was/is selling.If they are fakes , doesnt bear thinking about.

Greetings gentlemen , i didnt know quite where to put this post so here it is Chinese coins I would value replies on this regarding authenticity , if you brows the other items you'll see some of the highest quality ancient britain coins you'll see and for remarkably low prices..seller is in china , all the red flags are there , but are they genuine ?