ken46

Both are beautiful but likewise I like the first better. I did not try to look up but I assume the engraver was Pingo? Actually I don't even know what denomination this is.

Well I haven"t become bored yet with sovs. Yet I guess I am boring as I have really stayed too focused on one denomination. Never venturing out into other areas. I just continue on looking for the oddities and die numbers. Speaking of, I'm amazed there are so many oddities in the Victorian sov. series. You would certainly think that the best engravers would work on the more valuable currency pieces. Yet I do know Pistrucci did work on many of the recoinage denominations after 1816. The recent St. James auction certainly highlights just how many odd things were being done to dies. There are certain years that appear to present to many variations. I wonder if this occurs across the denomination spectrum?

This is most intresting. Thanks for sharing it. I have learned (realized) something I had heard of but had no real understanding.

I'm 60 and started collecting U.S. pennies in the 1950's. Being from a somewhat backwater area at that time my opportunity for purchasing anything of quality wasn't very good. Thru my early adulthood I continued to collect the odd piece as I found them and stayed intrested in the hobby. Kidding myself that I was actually doing something that would one day bring me an economic reward. Then about 30 years ago with gold actually trading in the U.S. I decided to collect gold coins. Very hastily I found out U. S. gold was way to expensive for me so I looked for something else and found sovereigns. Fortunately about 20 years ago I met a dealer who really started to educate me as to how to 'collect". We sold off over time almost everything I had bought as we slowly made new purchases of much better grades of coins. I don't know how many times I heard the word "patience". Though it is mentally rewarding to shoot for a big collection its far better to go for quality and rareness one piece at a time. I just wish I had known this when I was young. Now The Stalker started this discussion by asking about die numbers and various oddities. Probably the biggest mistake I have made in the coin collecting arena is trying to collect die numbered sovereigns. Its a black hole that seems to go on forever. If I had it to do over again I would have just collected nice pieces of whatever denomination that I came across.

Aidan, I guess I can answer my own question. I care as I have been trying to collect all the varieties and oddities of the Sovereign since 1816. The three 1918I's have different edge graining. The speciman and proof have very crisp flat toped edges that go to their base at an angle but all is "square looking". My regular minted piece which was a slabbed MS64 has the initial appearance of having a rounded top of the grain. This is not true when I got out my 10X glass. Not as crisp but flat on top. Just enough wearing to make it look slightly rounded. The three 15 Rupee's all have a much wider and bolder grain. Very easy to call them blocks. Just looking at various Geo. VI pieces from all the other mints I did not see much difference in the type graining. The 1925 piece that was restruck has a finer grain. I guess I'll start looking at 18I's to see if I ever see anything different. Ken

Aidan, You are correct that Krause does list restrikes for 1918I. Please note the restrikes are listed as proof-like. This probably indicates to me small numbers were minted for numismatic purposes. Is there any other way to distinguish the pieces other than proof-like? The 1925 British pieces were struck with a different collar so the edge graining is different and you can tell the restrikes from the original. But even so, who cares about the difference. Two more books I have found to help with gaining knowledge about sovereigna are: The History Of The Gold Sovereign Sir Geoffrey Duveen and H. G. Stride Royal Sovereign 1489-1989 Edited By G. P. Dyer Librarian and Curator, Royal Mint

Aidan, Please document in some way that there are a siginificant number of 1918I restrikes. I said it is possible to have some and even documented examples of other pieces restruck. But apparently the grading services don't know anything about it nor do the big houses in London nor do any of the reference books I listed. With a mintage of almost 1.3 million pieces and very few being used in the Western world as currency I could easily see how great numbers survived to this date. Ken

I have been collecting sovereigns seriously for over 20 years and would like to make several comments. Both British and Imperial sovereigns of the 20th century from all the mints are very easy to come by in "English grading EF or better" if your just looking for any date. It is certainly true that most mints do have rare dates. The Indian mint being the exception as they only minted the 1918I and it is certainly not rare. Please keep in mind, after WWI gold coins were not used as much for everyday trade and were largely kept by banks or treasury's as reserves. So a signifant number of coins were never "circulated" as such. Are there forgeries and restrikes? YES! These are two different issues so the forgeries first. Most are pretty easy to tell by their apparence, color, weight or edge graining. I have even seen several nice looking Victorian sovs. that were hard for me to tell the difference. But I will say that most of the experts who make a living at this can spot a forgery right off. So I think it unlikely there are to many out there floating around. I will give an example that is the exception. Many years ago I was offered an 1817 plain edge proof. Now this was a very expensive coin and I sent it to Spink for verification. It took them perhaps two years to verify that it was a forgery. Restrikes are different. Let me first comment on the Indian Mint seperately. If the 1918I was restruck it is not commonly known. Is it possible, of course. Paraphrasing E. Dawson, if it looks like a duck and weighs like a duck then it must be a duck. Who cares! Now, I happen to have a slabbed 1918I proof, a slabbed specimen and an uncirculated piece. I also have slabbed 1918I 15 Rupee proof pieces. Because of color they can be identified as restrikes from 1950 and 1968. Theese are same weight and size of sovereigns. Let me now specifically address the Royal mint. The only common sovereign I know that was restruck is the 1925 piece. They were restruck in 1949, 1951 and 1952. When it comes to special pieces-Una and the Lion-comes to mind as it was struck at various times during the 19th century and given at special occasions. Each can be identified by experts because of the collar that was used. I also have a 1839 proof sovereign that was minted in the 1870'S as a presentation piece. Anyone who is intrested in sovereigns should get some or all of the following books: The Gold Sovereign by Michael A. Marsh Coins of England & The United Kingdom Spink The Sovereign by Daniel Fearon and Brian Reeds Collecting And Investing In Auatrailian Coins And Banknotes by Greg McDonald

Sovereign Die Numbers Needed By Ken Goode Ken@scholarcraft.com Any assistance in helping me locate any of the below listed die numbers will be greatly appreciated 1863 1869 1872 25+ 20 33 23 103 1864 55 107 11 58 113+ 14 64 15 65 1873 16 66 19 17 67 25 18 68 26 19 70+ 27 20 28 47 1870 29 59 2 thru 79 inc. 30 66 97 thru 111 inc. 32 67 124+ 33 68 34 70 1871 35 106+ 46 37 thru 102 inc. 49 104 1865 50 105 7 51 106 25 52 108+ 30 53 34 55 1874 38 56 1 thru 27 inc. 39 57 29 41+ 58 30 59 31 1866 60 34+ 12 61 57 62 79+ 63 64 1868 65 5 69 40 70 80 to 96 inc. 42+ 107 112+

Thank you!

Hi Guys, Is it O.K. to post my want list in this location? If not, any recommendations. Thanks.

Its a mixed "bag" of sovereigns, as it were. Sovereigns from So. Africa, Canada and the three Australian were definitely predominately indigenous gold. In fact these were the primary sources of gold for the Royal Mint. Alot of the Indian gold was imported as you surmized but as an another example the Sydney and Melbourne mints minted shield sovereigns off and on from 1871 thru 1887. The shield was more acceptable for trade with India as the dragon being slayed was offensive. These pieces started off as Aust. gold but at a point became India gold. A ship captain or anyone else could walk into any of the mints with a bag of "gold"--any kind of gold coin, nuggets or gold dust and have it traded for new gold coins on the spot. It was the practice of all the mints (Royal and Imp.) to melt down worn coins for new mintages.

I was wondering if anyone collects sovereigns and also sovereigns with die numbers(1863-1874)?