Bernie

Indeed it is fascinating, and the evidence for the 1922 coin is hard to refute. According to Spink though, there's another piece to the puzzle. They list an identical coin dated 1926, i.e. a penny with ME obverse and 1927 reverse. Does this exist too? If it does, then why experiment with both dates? Unless, as you say, tests were done in 1925 before the 1926 dies were produced, and then repeated with 1926 dies before 'going live' in 1927. We'll probably never know. The 1922 proof pennies were placed in Proof sets, the rest of the coins in the sets were dated 1924! These sets were produced and given to the South African government. I presume the idea of this gift was to show the quality of the coins. The Royal Mint produced coins for many other countries, they may have been touting for business. I don't know if the royal mint were producing coinage for South Africa at this time. The Story of 1926 dated pennies is another story! Until recently there were only two different varieties known, this has doubled to four!! in the last two years.

Bought into what? The only pictures I've seen here are of the (undisputed) 1922 with 1927 reverse. Of the supposed 1922ME, there has been no trace. I'd still like some answers to my questions about the whole reason behind it. UNLESS it was a test strike of the 1926 ME obverse using the only reverse die they had around, which would be the 1922 as the last date struck? Now THAT would begin to make SOME sense, and would date the penny to around 1925. So if it's genuine, that's my theory - a test strike made in 1925 before the 1926 reverse dies had been prepared, and somehow escaping captivity in the way that a 1952 halfcrown and 1954 penny did. Yes, that would be interesting - would prove if it was a fake. But I hope we can agree on one thing, even if it turned out to be genuine - it wasn't struck in 1922 or anywhere near. Here is a picture of the 1922 proof penny, Freeman dies obverse 3 with reverse C

Bought into what? The only pictures I've seen here are of the (undisputed) 1922 with 1927 reverse. Of the supposed 1922ME, there has been no trace. I'd still like some answers to my questions about the whole reason behind it. UNLESS it was a test strike of the 1926 ME obverse using the only reverse die they had around, which would be the 1922 as the last date struck? Now THAT would begin to make SOME sense, and would date the penny to around 1925. So if it's genuine, that's my theory - a test strike made in 1925 before the 1926 reverse dies had been prepared, and somehow escaping captivity in the way that a 1952 halfcrown and 1954 penny did. Yes, that would be interesting - would prove if it was a fake. But I hope we can agree on one thing, even if it turned out to be genuine - it wasn't struck in 1922 or anywhere near. Here is a picture of the 1922 with the 1927 type obverse and reverse. I have seen and handled this coin. examined it closely with a microscope and cannot fault it. The reverse of which is Freeman reverse C is identical and almost certainly the same die that produced the 1922 proof pennies.

The pictured 1922 F192A is brilliant! As far as I am aware (from the reverse picture) this is the second best known of this variety, the best is only marginally better.(need to see a picture of the obverse) Value could be anything between £2000-£5000 depending who bids for it! The dies used on this variety, Freeman Cat. obverse 3 with pattern reverse C* The other even rarer, so far unique, is definately real, the coin has the obverse Modified effigy obverse 4 with reverse die C, the exact die design used for the 1927 pennies. A third die pair exists but was only used as far as is known to produce two proof pennies. the dies used were obverse 3 with reverse C. Other sub varieties of 1922 pennies exist, versions of the more common Fr192, one struck in a ferrous metal, possibly nickel, another version with a raised dot in the centre prong of the trident.

The conclusions that I have heard regarding the last W & W auction is that their estimates are kept low to encourage bidders to take part.

Brilliant find!! Struck on a two shilling planchet, must be worth at least £500

After long consideration and communications with halfpenny experts it is my opinion that your coin pictured is an obverse 12 with reverse J. The difference between obverses 10 and obverses 11,12 is that 11,12 have a slightly protruding hair line on the forehead. The difference between obverse 11 and 12 is the front upper laurel leaf is longer and more pointed on obverse 12 than that of obverse 11 And here is a picture of 1874 obverse 12, showing the longer, more pointed upper front laurel leaf

After long consideration and communications with halfpenny experts it is my opinion that your coin pictured is an obverse 12 with reverse J. The difference between obverses 10 and obverses 11,12 is that 11,12 have a slightly protruding hair line on the forehead. The difference between obverse 11 and 12 is the front upper laurel leaf is longer and more pointed on obverse 12 than that of obverse 11

Hi Azda, What is the finer details on this coin to look out for? as i have one of these at home in slightly better condition than the one in the pictures you've posted here?? Victoria has a straighter back all the way down to the border teeth, the whole bust is larger, the legend is heavier

As stated before, 6+D, Freeman 29, week striking of L.C.W on reverse.

I'm still here, 6+H, as previously stated, Freeman 68, yes, rare in high grade,

I don't know if Paul(The wink)is still dealing, but he appeared at the auction of the Laurie Bamford collection of bronze pennies in 2006. Paul had lost a bit of hair, I spoke to him but didn't recognise him! a bit embarrasing! I believe he works for London Transport, underground train driver.

The James Workman Collection Part 2 will be auctioned starting 10th. November. Catalogues are available on request at Colin Cooke Coins website.

Auction Part 2 now in progress New pictures have been placed at CCC of pennies Gouby 1860T and Freeman 36, should help sell them!!

Auction Part 2 now in progress

I visited your website, very impressive, will bookmark !! The picture of the 1860T (lot 8) is highly unrepresentative of the actual coin. The scratches and scars that appear on the picture are not as apparently obvious and the coin is a chocolate brown colour. The area around where the (missing) colon dots should be is unclear. I therefore are attaching a picture of the area.

I visited your website, very impressive, will bookmark !!

Some overstrikes are clear, but that one isn't. You need, and quite reasonably requested, a close up pic of the date, and it seems a bit unintelligent of Cookes to simply send you the existing pic. This very coin in the auction was the actual discovery coin owned by Malcolm Peake which led to the recorded variation in the "Bronze coinage of Great Britain" author Michael J Freeman

Attached is a picture of the milled edge.

The catalogues will probably not arrive until Monday 8th. November.

Here is a copy of the article from the Sept 1967 Spink Numismatic circular, Author Jim Noble, Formally of Spink & Son, London, now Noble Numismatics Sidney Australia.

The dies could have been made in 1881, followed by a test run. The dies, Freeman reference obverse 11 and reverse N were used on some of the pennies struck in 1883 at the Royal Mint, although the royal mint have no record of pennies or any other denomination struck by them in 1882. One example of an 1882 penny was found in Australia and brought to England in 1967. This coin was described as near FDC, proof looking. This would fit well with a small test run of the dies. (SNC Sept.1967)

How many London Mint 1882 pennies would you say have survived (all grades)? Freeman has them as R17 (16 to 50 in existence). That was in 1985. Given their unique status, there's likely still the same number now, but most of those will be in private collections, which will probably not see the light of day for a very long time, if ever. That includes the prime example Bernie showed us a few weeks back. To my knowledge there is about eight graded Fine to UNC, there are more in just identifiable to Near fine, a probable twenty specimens in total that have so far come to light. 16 to 50 is a fairly wide estimated range. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say less than 40. I bet there's maybe 10 which will come up for sale in the next 3 years, say ~ and the sales points could be anywhere. Mind, most of them will be flat discs. Gouby quotes R9 for the 1882 London penny which is "2-9 possibly known". Although he doesn't say exactly how he comes by this estimate I wonder if he doesn't count the flat discs? That is a distinct possibility. To my knowledge there is about eight graded Fine to UNC, there are more in just identifiable to Near fine, a probable twenty specimens in total that have so far come to light.

How many London Mint 1882 pennies would you say have survived (all grades)? Freeman has them as R17 (16 to 50 in existence). That was in 1985. Given their unique status, there's likely still the same number now, but most of those will be in private collections, which will probably not see the light of day for a very long time, if ever. That includes the prime example Bernie showed us a few weeks back. To my knowledge there is about eight graded Fine to UNC, there are more in just identifiable to Near fine, a probable twenty specimens in total that have so far come to light. 16 to 50 is a fairly wide estimated range. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say less than 40. I bet there's maybe 10 which will come up for sale in the next 3 years, say ~ and the sales points could be anywhere. Mind, most of them will be flat discs. Gouby quotes R9 for the 1882 London penny which is "2-9 possibly known". Although he doesn't say exactly how he comes by this estimate I wonder if he doesn't count the flat discs? That is a distinct possibility.

Definately Reverse B, the gap between the trident prong and P of PENNY on Reverse A is twice as wide.