Accumulator

If you want to go down the stereotype road, how about the even smugger 'we know best', luvvy, trendy-lefty, Guardian-subscribed, liberals of Notting Hill with huge, often publicly funded (think BBC exec) salaries and fat bottomed pensions? Then we could talk about that multi-multi-millionaire socialist, Tony Blair…. Stereotypes don't work, there are good and bad examples of everything out there.

You mean the South Koreans accept bank transfers then?

1. We are not in the Euro, and never have been. That was our government's free choice. Personally I'm all in favour of that, as the Euro itself has been the biggest unmitigated disaster of the EU. 2. Speaking as a citizen of the oldest federated union in Europe (over more than 1000 years, Yorkshiremen and Cornishmen have not lost their individual identities), the EU is hardly the recipe for the feared 'loss of national identity'. Germans, French, Spanish, and Italians, are no less German, French, Spanish, or Italian through being members of the EU. Nor are they clamouring for independence from it, apart from their own equivalents of UKIP. 1. We both agree about the Euro then. 2. You misquote me. I didn't talk about loss of 'national identity' (whatever that is? Certainly rich material for a different debate on another day), I said national democracy. How could anyone argue that wasn't being eroded by the EU?

Your Gerald Ratner moment, Chris?

Hi Geoff, thank you! Whatever you have, whether coin or token, we'd like to see a photo. The depth of knowledge here is excellent, so you can expect some informed opinions.

It all boils down to a simple choice - European Union or national democracy. The two are mutually exclusive. I respect everyone's opinion (Peckris, David, Colin, Rob, everyone…), whether pro or anti. What I can't respect is the 'political elite' denying the population the chance to make their choice. The only conceivable grounds for denial, is the opinion that 'we' know better than 'you' and can't trust 'you' to make the correct decision. It's surely that simple? Off my soapbox now…

Beautiful examples of the crown, guys. And excellent photos. Every one I've looked at has a slight flaw somewhere.

?? Having checked the website, I think he means it lasts for life in the sense that you never have to re-take the test (the RAE - Radio Amateur Exam, as it was called in my day). To keep the licence active you have to renew every 5 years though.

Just for fun, I took a look at the on-line licensing, which I see is now handled by Ofcom. Apparently I can re-instate my licence if I want to, by paying a £20 fee! There's no reason to do this, but it's interesting to know.

Both listed in Freeman (F-678 and F-679) rated R18.

I've always struggled with the MS65 = CGS85 alignment and I do think this demonstrates the tougher line taken by CGS. In my limited experience a CGS85 coin is always an exceptional example and I've not seen one that I wouldn't happily have in my collection. On the other hand I have a few (NGC) MS65 examples which I'd certainly look to upgrade. They'd never have made CGS85.

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population. At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties So you say. I vehemently disagree. The likes of the Mail have turned this country into a nation of Euro-phobes since 1975 (when we collectively voted to stay in), fed by a swathe of urban myths typified by the famous Yes, Minister episode about the 'traditional British sausage'. Just to throw one single fact at you : we, in this supposedly enlightened economy, have the lowest proportion of retirement pension compared to average wage, of any EU member. That makes you happy? It doesn't me. Nor do pro-Murdoch rants from the red-tops. In 1975 we voted to remain in the 'Common Market', what we have nearly 40 years later is something very different. We have the EU, as the name implies, a Union. I certainly don't glean my facts from the likes of the Mail and I can't see how the pension arrangements of this country have anything whatsoever to do with our being inside or outside of the EU. I'm not saying our pensions are good (they're not), just that I don't want this country ruled by Brussels. I'm not alone in that.

Things have changed, I'd never heard of call signs beginning with 'M'! I had a G8 licence back in 1974, which I kept up until about 1980. After that my interests lay elsewhere and I didn't bother renewing it. I was very active in the early days though, building some of my own equipment… particularly a 400w amp with two of the now classic 4CX250B RF power tetrodes. Did wonders for the neighbours tv pic as I recall!

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population. At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

Me too. The seller just got back to me with this: I pulled this for the times being as others have mentioned this is not the F 21. Its odd as I am sure viewing in hand this has a sign on the truncation of the bust. At any rate I will submit it to NGC later see what they come up with. I have another (1860) lot 310755521863 I will send in also as it has no match that I have been able to find (the "I" in britt is Very high) and see what they come up with on that one. Thanks for the input much appreaciated. My reply included: "….I'm not sure that NGC have a very good record with British coins, especially pennies. We often see misattributed varieties over here. They also tend not to determine Freeman numbers and certainly don't use the even more detailed Gouby reference book…." The 1860 is interesting in that the 'I' of BRITT has been recut and misaligned, but otherwise it looks like a Freeman 10 to me, with obverse 2 rather than 3 as stated in his description (colon after G: of D:G: points to a tooth)

Me too. The seller just got back to me with this: I pulled this for the times being as others have mentioned this is not the F 21. Its odd as I am sure viewing in hand this has a sign on the truncation of the bust. At any rate I will submit it to NGC later see what they come up with. I have another (1860) lot 310755521863 I will send in also as it has no match that I have been able to find (the "I" in britt is Very high) and see what they come up with on that one. Thanks for the input much appreaciated. My reply included: "….I'm not sure that NGC have a very good record with British coins, especially pennies. We often see misattributed varieties over here. They also tend not to determine Freeman numbers and certainly don't use the even more detailed Gouby reference book…."

Welcome Geoff. I can't add anything to the IOM discussion but noticed your interests include amateur radio! That takes me back to the 70s, when I had a licence and used to spend my spare time building equipment and chatting on the 2m band.

I did, but the photos I took were crap. Far too grainy and contrasted, so I binned them. However hard I try, I can't seem to get reproducibly good images. Nothing wrong with the coin though. Those above were taken with a cheap compact camera (£75 ish), a mini tripod (£15 ish) and 3 desk lamps from Homebase which I fitted with LED lamps (£13 each plus £5 each for the lamps). Nothing fancy. And I've reduced the resolution by a significant factor to be able to post them on here.

I did buy the coin as an overdate Bob. As I recall, Rob had a very nice one for sale at one time too. He may still have photos? Dave, did you see my post about 1904 pennies in the 'Confirmed unlisted varieties' sub-forum? I'd be interested to get your input on these.

I've tried to take an angled pic of mine, in case this helps:

Hi Dave, that sounds like the one! Well done. Here's mine:

I noticed that error also! The coin does have a 2nd "1" impression slightly to the left of the 2nd one (1) in the date! I saw the second '1', but it's not something I would particularly bother to collect and certainly not what he is selling it as! It'll be interesting to see whether he replies to my email.

Freeman lists just the one (F-163) but David Groom lists 13 combinations, made up of permutations on the position of the '7' and the length of the tail of the '9'. He goes on to mention open & closed loop '9's but doesn't attempt to list all the potential combinations resulting from this addition! Only one type in the collection for me, though your photos do demonstrate a clear difference between the varieties.

This extremely rare Freeman 21 (3+D) is actually the common Freeman 29 (6+D). Watch out! I've informed the seller.

As well as being cleaned, I think the reason there are no edge knocks is because they have been removed. If you look carefully, the coin appears to have chamfered edges. The chamfers are very even in shape and tone. Also the description 'EX details' sounds remarkably similar to the TPG description 'XF details', which denotes a coin that they have declined to fully grade due to a 'problem' (eg. major scratching, cleaning etc.)