Accumulator

Alternatively, Google "Duodecimal System" for a great deal more information.

You only disagree strongly Peckris, because you haven't grasped the principle of bases other than 10 and don't understand the maths: In base 12, advancing in units of 12 gives you 10, 20, 30, 40... Advancing in units of 6 gives you 6, 10, 16, 20, 26, 30.... What could be simpler? Check the Wikipedia link above to help you out.

Sometimes thinking outside the box is worthwhile. It's not a new idea... here's the Wikipedia entry: My link

I know this is a purely academic mathematical point but base 10 has no more legitimacy than base 12 or indeed any other number that might have been chosen historically. 10 was only ever adopted by custom (because we have 10 fingers). All I'm saying is it wasn't a particularly good choice given it's lack of divisibility. I'm certainly not saying we, or anyone else, should or could change now but it's interesting to reflect on nevertheless.

I think that's only relevant if you're a mathematician. Since the introduction of the zero from the Indian sub-continent slowly from the 12th century, a base of 10 made far more sense. Everyone else has looked at the problem and come up with base 100 as being the best solution. If we had decided otherwise it would have been a case of 'everyone being out of step except my son John' would it not? I'm not sure that anyone has ever suggested base 100? You would need 100 different symbols just to count! Base 16 (hexadecimal with symbols '0' to 'F') is the norm in the world of computing but this is an just a handy way of reducing the length of numbers in the base 2 binary system and is otherwise not workable. Mathmeticians generally feel base 12 would have been the best choice, simply because in day to day use, halving, dividing by three and quartering are the most common operations. Dividing by 10 is not in the least bit common, except in the invented world of base 10. In base 12, dividing by 12 would be the equivalent and just as simple operation.

"To fight against sensible decimalisation after all those changes, seems downright perverse" Actually, apart from the fact that we have 10 digits (fingers and toes), decimalisation, or base 10 is a dreadful system. Other than 1 and itself, 10 only produces a whole number result when divided by 2 and 5. 12 on the other hand can be divided by 2,3,4 and 6. How often do quantities have to be divided into thirds or quarters? Base ten produces the horrible result of a recurring number when divided by 3, a problem which our decimal numbering system never really overcomes except with the somewhat abstruse concept of infinity.

Interesting buy azda and certainly worth the punt as even under the microscope it's far from obvious. How about submitting it to NGS or the like and see what they make of it?

Seeing larger pics. suggests you are most likely correct in your evaluation of the two coins. However, I am curious why anyone would go to the trouble of copying a poor quality 22k coin worth no more than bullion value using 22k gold bullion? The process costs involved would almost certainly generate a financial loss to the forger. The only two explanations that make sense to me are laundering or CGT avoidance. Laundering would be the means where unlawfully obtained gold bullion which might be difficult to trade is swapped into easily tradeable gold coinage. CGT avoidance arises because the private sale of gold bullion in the UK is subject to capital gains tax (CGT) whereas the sale of sovereigns is not.

I'm aware of sovereign values as I have a fair collection but I also have bullion coins for investment purposes... Especially good as their sale involves no cgt liability. As mentioned above, the app is GoldTracker.

I notice this has been raised before but no longer appears as a current topic. I've been through all the iPhone coin-related apps but still no sign of anything for storing collection details etc. This would be really useful to carry around as a pocket reference. The only really interesting app is the one for the coin(money museum) which has nice pics and background info on many European coins. It is free! Has anyone else found interesting apps I might have missed?

Welcome... I'm fairly new here too but do collect sovereigns. It's very hard to tell from the relatively low resolution pics but to me something does look strange about the right hand one. Have you weighed and measured them? Not sure I would lay them on a slightly abrasive background either.

I was outbid by £50, with only one other bidder Tried to edit my last post but was unable for some reason. Was going to say I was referring to the 1927 penny lot which went for £2,750! Would very much have liked that coin but will have to wait now.

I was outbid by £50, with only one other bidder

Out tonight but left a bid for this one... will have to see!

I know there are a few Apps for keeping track of precious metal prices and I've tried several of them. Personally I've found Gold Tracker to be the best. The poor star rating seems to be related to a problem they had in September linking to the Kitco history charts but that is definitely solved now. The biggest pain is that you have to type in 7.98g/22k each time you load the App (for sovereigns) as it has no facility for saving these parameters. Overall though I do find this useful for keeping track of the base price when buying. On a couple of rare occasions I've even found and bought sovereigns on e-bay at just below the bullion value!

Geoff, in retrospect, I'm sure you're right about mine too. It's probably just an early striking. I tend to collect the best I can find/afford of each date and if this happens to be a proof, that's fine. The 1887 is a particularly mirrored finish compared to the adjacent years, hence my assumption, but it may well not meet the other criteria which determine a genuine proof. The acid test would be a comparison with an 1887 proof set. Someone here must have one?

Sorry I can't post a link using the iPhone!

You could be right azda, I'd be interested to know? There's one on eBay 'from a proof set' - which of course may not be true, at the moment. Using only my iPhone it's hard to be 100% but the 'i's appear to point slightly to one side of the gaps, like on mine.

Obverse:

Not sure if these images are of any use but the field on mine (which I have always assumed to be a proof) has a definite mirror finish.

Indeed they are.

Closed:

Definitely not up to Peter Nichols standard, but this is what I use:

Not sure where you saw shoes and coats? A quick search shows this seller has sold other high end crowns, including an EF wreath.

Use the App search facility and type "money museum", azda. You should find it listed as Coins (money museum).