RobJ

Hello Old Copper Nose, Welcome to the Forum.

I completely agree with you David. To me it is not only arcane but severely headache enducing! lol One of the things that I found most confusing with Heraldry is that I was taught that although it is termed a 'Léopard' the species of the animal isn't actually a Leopard at all! I was taught that the species was in fact a Lion. However, due to Heraldic imagary and tradition it is a 'Léopard.' That is not to say that what I was taught was correct, or even fact for that matter. The way that I always understood it personally was that the animal depicted was a Lion but was called a 'Léopard' due to the French Heraldic influences on our history. So both the terms of 'Three Lions' and 'Three Léopards' are neither correct nor incorrect. Again, I could very well be wrong. lol One thing is though, I find it all incredibly fascinating. lol

You are very welcome Kronos. I hope that it helped you and that you didn't doze off to sleep as many times whilst reading my response as I did when doing my A-Level History! lol

As far as I can remember from my A-Level History studies - Please take in to account that it was quite a few years ago that I studied my A-Levels so my memory is rather hazy lol - The 'Three Lions' of England have their origins in the Norman Era and French Heraldry. Henry I , who as Duke of Normandy, had a Coat of Arms which beared two Lions. When his grandson Henry II became King of England and Duke of Normandy he continued to use his Grandfathers Coat of Arms. Henry II married Eleanor of Aquitaine - Whos Coat of Arms beared one Lion - and they together produced a son, Richard the Lionheart. When Richard became King of England, he merged the two Coat of Arms of his parents to create the 'Three Lions' as his own personal Coat of Arms. This is where I remember that it became quite tricky as the use of Heraldic Symbolism came in to play heavily. Henry's Lions were depicted as 'Rampant' (Upright Stance) However, Richard's Lions were depicted as 'Passant' (Laying Facing). Now for the tricky bit, lol In both English and French Heraldry the Lions 'Rampant' were simply known as a 'Lion' but in French Heraldry and therefore in the French language the Lions 'Passant' were known as 'Léopards.' So there has been much confusion and debate to which is correct ever since. However technically speaking they are infact Léopards as their origins lay with the French Heraldic tradition. As I said my memory is a rather hazy on this subject, so I apologize in advance for any misinformation or inaccuracies, but those as far as I remember are the basic origins. I hope that helps.

I see that bidding for this item has ended. Someone ended up paying 99p + £1.20 P&P. I really do hope that the buyer isn't a new collector, especially a younger one, who thinks that they have a acquired a rarity, as it does sadden me when I see things like this happen. Hopefully the buyer may see the light of day once they receive the coin and be able to return it. And if they don't wish to do that, I hope that they are very happy with it.

I think that they are quite nice too Scott. I think that it has an interesting design. Although I must admit, I do like the new 'Cities' series of designs for the UK £1 coins that have recently been released. They have interesting designs too. London Belfast Edinburgh Cardiff

I'm only getting a link to create a new topic Marc.

Thanks Peckris. I couldn't agree with you more. As I said in an earlier post, I found it interesting that a weakly struck coin often exhibits the weak strike on the places which are prone to natural wear. It had also crossed my mind that a scenario may occur where someone knowingly may describe and sell a coin with natural wear as a coin which was weakly struck. Which is the precise reason that I started this thread to try to obtain some knowledge and information on this subject. I am a great believer in thinking that if you don't know something, then ask! After all it costs nothing to ask, and in this particular case it may actually save you some money.

Oh dear! I don't seem to be having much luck on the link front today do I? I'll just add it as a picture file. Surely that will work... Wont it? lol

For some reason the link that I enclosed did not work properly. Sorry Everyone. www.flickr.com/photos/84744892@N00/4307046566/ Hopefully this will work better! lol

I thought that I had struck Gold today. quite literally! I found one of these in my change. It ended up being a £1 coin from Gibraltar. I glanced at it quickly and had to do a double take as I thought that I had chanced upon a Sovereign. lol We can all dream I suppose. lol

You are welcome 1949. I'm glad that it helped to confirm it. You are right about the 'Scuff Marks' not appearing on the BU issue. I have just checked mine and it doesn't appear on it. So I would agree that it has to be the way that the coins are transported.

Well done Scott! They are both hard Commemoratives to find in change.

Indeed! Although the Mint do seem to have addressed the issue for the most part, it still seems to happen on the 'Copper' coins. And with the planned introduction of coins composed of Nickel Plated Steel soon to be adopted by the Mint, we could see a lot more of these type of coins emerging if the Mint do not address the issue fully.

Sorry everyone. This should have read: If I'm honest, I think that the seller is taking a major liberty in trying to sell this coin for more than what it is worth in the wake of '20p Error Mania.'

Thanks for the information and the images for comparison Scott.

I have managed to obtain three of them in my change to date. I have also noticed that on each of them that they all have the 'Scuff Marks' that you mentioned 1949. In particular on either side of the Queen's head, but also above and below the Rev design image. They do seem to follow a pattern and I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed this. I'm wondering if this is something to do with the minting process itself? Or perhaps it is to do with the way that the coins are transported? Maybe they are 'Rubbing' against each other in the rolls? I have enclosed some images for comparison.

No. They are all on Ebay That is very funny! lol

I have seen several coins recently in my change that have similar afflictions. I know that I have a 2008 1p which has 'Blobs' not only in the fields of the coin but also on the letter 'N' in Penny. As I understand it such coins are not as rare as the seller is claiming. I know that the 2008 20p coin in particular had some serious defects when it was first released. If I'm honest, I think that the seller is taking a major liberty in trying to sell this coin for what it is worth in the wake of '20p Error Mania.' I personally wouldn't offer more than 1p for it!

Thank you very much Peckris, 1949 and Red. Your replies have once again proved very informative and most helpful. I have been looking on various Dealers websites and I have noticed various coins labled as 'Weak Strike.' Which is what originally prompted me to enquire about this subject as I thought that it was important to try and have an understanding of it. I did read in Red's book on Grading that the parts of a coin which are affected by a weak strike are also often the places which are prone to natural wear on a coin. Which I found most interesting. As I imagined, this is quite a deep and broad ranging subject with many factors and more research is definitely required. It is one however that I personally find most interesting.

I remember seeing a Millenium Dome issue £5 a few years ago, I can't remember where exactly but I think it may have been a Boot Sale. The chap selling it was asking for £10 for it. I had no interest in £5 Commemorative issues so I didn't purchase it. But as I understand it, they are the rarer version which command a premium over the other issues. I wonder if a similar scenario will happen with the aforementioned 50p?

Of course! The Millennium £5 Commemorative coin. I had completely forgotten about that. Thank you for pointing that out Dave.

If I am honest, I thought that it was an excellent idea by the Royal Mint to open a competition to allow anyone to enter a design to be included on the Olympic Commemorative 50p coins. Again if I'm honest, I do think that are some very nice designs. As someone who does collect Commemorative 50p coins I will look in my change and if I manage to obtain them then fantastic, but as for buying them in BU, that is a different matter to me. As there are 29 of them at a price of £2.99 each, the total of which is around £85, I do agree that is excessive! Speaking of these coins. What I found interesting is that the design for Athletics 50p had been released twice! It was designed by a young girl who entered and won the Blue Peter competition. Part of her prize was to have her coin produced by the Royal Mint, this was released in, and the coin was dated 2009. When I was browsing the new set of Commemorative designs I noticed that her design was again released but this time the coin was dated 2011. I was wondering if this had happened before? The exact same Commemorative coin but with two different dates? Also , if in the future if these coins do become desirable as collectors issues, I wonder if one would have a premium over the other?

If I'm honest I am not a fan of the newer smaller sizes coins. I much prefered the larger Shilling and Florin sized coins, and I've always really liked the old large 50p. I think that may go back to when I was younger when I had 50p pocket money, to me it really felt like it had that value. You also knew when you had a couple of each of the larger coins in your pocket, unlike the small light ones we get today where you can't tell if you have them in your pocket or not unless they bang against eachother. lol

That's not a problem at all 1949, don't worry about it. Thanks. As I said, I think I was very lucky. I think that it was just a case of being.in the right place at the right time. Like yourself when you obtained both of the 2002 Commonweath Games £2. Oddly enough with pre 1997 £2 Commemoratives I had quite a few each of the 1986 Commonwealth Games, 1989 Bill of Rights and 1996 Football Championships for some reason. I only ever saw one each of the 1994 Bank of England and 1995 WWII. But I never did see a 1989 Claim of Right or 1995 UN!