ski

yes he did call him that............... it was maybe what most was thinking, to be honest............and even worse.......he did it with a jock accent

Bernard Mathews was the last bloke who i knew of who invested heavily in turkey.........he seemed to do okay out of it.

i didnt realise serious answers were allowed on this forum..........

ive been able to get a second look at the coin and you can just make out a thin rim on 1 off the sides where the join is between the rim and the beads. i have to say, someones made a great job of it. ........Ski.

this was the double florin proof that i refered to http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAINBOW-TONED-PROOF-1887-JUBILEE-FLORIN-NGC-PR-65-/250806595890?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a653cf132 ski.

....when i first saw the coin, i explained to my friend that i thought its a joined coin (without really knowing), he wasnt too impressed. thanks for the clarification.

i will have another look at it as i assumed the join would be around the edge. im assuming its a joined coin but just wondered if there were any genuine double headed/ double tailed 1d's.

ive been hunting for a nice double florin proof for a while, last week there was a slabbed one on ebay.........the slab i can live with......the rainbow toning was done to extreme.....for me at least, it ruined the coin. funnt isnt it.........i would have never have considered taking petrol any where near a coin, and yet so many like their coins this way.

interesting, i may try that for myself on 1 or 2 cheapie coins. i do like the lovely blue tone some of my victorian silver has, but i hate the extreme rainbow toning that the americans seem to like.

what sort of time scale are we looking at for the retoning to take place?

maybe a bit of both, i prefer to buy coins that havent been cleaned, grim doesnt bother me and i like toning, it would be nice in an ideal world to be told in the lot description that the coin has been cleaned, im not sure the response to lobbying would be great. one of the reasons i prefer to buy from known and respected dealers.

a nice little item for penny and farthing collectors. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature-Brass-Penny-Farthing-Cycle-/230656984443?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item35b43a457b

mr peckris sir.....my posts here have never meant to in any way offend. ive not tried to offend in any way, if however they have.....please accept my apologies. please may i also add, whilst we each have our own view on this subject, i do respect your view, its great that we have such a forum for enjoying such debate.........and ive enjoyed debating this with you. youre original comment regarding the penny farthing bycycle was something along the lines off " it deserved more attention than that"..........well i guess weve both contributed to giving it some attention. youre right its now time to move on. like all good debate, when it finishes, whether in agreement or not, its good if both parties can accept the hand of friendship, and whilst i also finish now, i do so with the hand of friendship. thank you. i read all your posts with a great deal of interest and have learnt a lot from your knowledge of coins, i hope that continues ...................SKI. i think by 2012, some scientist or government minister will have decided milk isnt safe to drink and tescos will have forced all local shops out of business.

the bill i was refering to in my previous post has now moved onto the house of lords and has completed 2 readings. you can read here... http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/coinagemeasurement.html a coin or coins of 1kg or more.....were gonna need bigger pockets

fictional bags of pennies can be melted down, because pennies are not covered by this act. the date of 31-8-1971 is very revelant to everything associated with this act as, thats when it commenced!. i agree with you peckris about new coins and the subsequent demonitization of other coins as you ve listed. indeed i wrote just that in my first post.....maybe you missed that. yes there are bills passed through the houses of parliment all the time and i read one just a few weeks ago about the royal mints request to make a new coin for the 2012 olympics whech fell outside of the 1971 acts dimensions and weights criteria for a coin of legal tender, the bill was passed. Now that we agree peckris, that you can melt down fictional bags of pennies, and break them up. Moving back to the penny farthing bike........the question was asked was it illegal to drill a hole in the penny? clearly not. and that ma lord is the case for the defence

i dont need to show you peckris.......their in section 2 of this very act..........along with the note about the penny not being legal tender on this date.......................maybe you havent read it i may be stubborn peckris,especially when i know what im saying is there in black and white for you to read, but im not rude............ enjoy youre sleep

peckris I cannot believe you have wasted so many words on perpetuating an error! Sigh. Let me try and spend fewer words to explain it. there are none so blind as those who wont see......... the act of 1971 only applies to coins who were legal tender on the 31-8-1971.............thats it.

nail absolutely hit on the head with 1 swift blow. its not going to policed, probably not on a small scale anyway. im of the opinion as you seem to be that its there to be used against the big players. but it is there not just for coins, also notes and ingots, and all other devices that are legal tender. as coin collectors/dealers we maybe look at legal tender from a coin point of view. but its on the books if it were ever needed to be used..... if it were not there, and large scale counterfeiting or melting down took place, you dont have the legal ability to deal with those responsible..........for a single breach of the act, i think i read that the current fixed fee was £500. cant see that putting of organised crime.

this is very close to the bit that is causing confusion here. and causing mr peckris a problem i think. when a line is drawn in the sand with the passing of a new act, it does just that, for example an act passed stating that no new motorbike is allowed to have a front number plate mounted on the front mudguard, doesnt mean that all motorbikes built before the passing of the act have to remove their front number plate. indeed many vintage veteran motorcycles retain their front number plates and can be seen around the country on balmy summer sundays (summer sunday was mid june this year ) and so with the commencement of this act (31-8-1971) a line was drawn in the sand, and this act was put into place to protect the legal tender, that was legal tender on this day and thereafter. so what is that is so difficult to understand about section 10 of this act. well firstly you have to understand this act only affects those coins that were legal tender on the 31-8-1971. the act itself states quite clearly that this does not include the threepenny bit and penny as of this date and so the commencement of the act were no longer legal tender. its legal tender that this act wishes to preserve remember. before we move on to section 10 of the act, we can look at what coins were legal tender on the commencement date, 10p 5p 1p florin shilling and sixpence to name a few. indeed there were more that were legal tender, but before we discuss those, lets make a few observations. these observations are to try and help understand section 10. but remember now section 10 of the act only applies to those coins that were legal tender on that date...not the penny etc. 1/- in the uk, for a coin to be currency or be part of the uk currency system, it has to be legal tender. 2/- not all coins produced in the uk which are legal tender,are in fact part of the currency system, but they are still legal tender. 3/- if coins were legal tender as of 31-8-1969 they are covered by this act. 4/- if coins were legal tender as of 31-8-1969 but were not currency coins, they are still covered by this act. 5/- all coins not legal tender on the 31-8-1971 are not covered by this act. so good so far, lets move onto section 10 of the act of 1971, just remember now, this act covers coins that were legal tender on this day and there after. current = legal term for currency as well as being current. remember now, you can have legal tender that is not part of your currency system or, is not current to put it legally.............please read that again mr peckris. okay bearing in mind this statement is made with referance to those coins that are legal tender as of the 31-8-1971 and of course included in this act. (also specifically not included, the penny and threpeny bit). what coins could possibly have been legal tender and so covered by this act on the 31-8-1971, and under section 10 of this act being current at 16th may 1969?...............step forward once more the 5p 10p florin shilling etc now the big question...... what coins could possibly have been legal tender and so covered by this act on the 31-8-1971 (not the penny remember) but had after the 16th may 1969 ceased to be so (current)........step forward the sovereign, the half sovereign, the quarter sovereign, maundy money, just about every commemorative issue that has been produced since this date........i may stand corrected, but im of the opinion that proofs also fall into this category. they were, and are still all legal tender, but not current. 31-8-1969......the humble penny was not legal tender, was not covered by this act. so does the 1971 act make the conversion of sovereigns into jewellry illegal?, the sovereign under this act was legal tender, even if it wasnt current (=currency). so is very definetly covered by this act.........so my legal eagle adviser observes (conveniently a sovereign collector).......... if you melt a sovereign down or cut it up to make into an item of jewelery (without consent), you are in breach of this act, ...........if you have consent....youre ok. if you mount the sovereign in a ring or pendant type mount where the coins original weight or purity are not affected, and the coin can be removed once more as legal tender..........youre okay. the double florin is still legal tender, it cannot be melted down or broken up without permission. at the time of writting this act, the double florin was legal tender but not current (ie currency), however, my legal eagle sovereign collector observes that not only is it now legal tender but thinks (hes going to get back to me with a definitive answer asap) that with the introduction of the 20p may also now be current. as soon as hes clarified that point, i will post. ski.

not at all..........maybe you should try reading it all again, then maybe you will understand.....it really isnt that difficult.

i always preffered the frosted description, cameo just sounds like a bar of soup am i right in thinking cameo may be an american term for frosted?

not at all. the point of my posts is that the penny and threepenny bit were not subject to this act,simple as that, as you mentioned also the farthing and also the half crown and halfpenny. the act was not retrospective, but was and still is in place to protect the current legal tender....the penny under this act was not current and was not legal tender and fell outside of section 3 of what constituted as of 31 aug 1971 a legally tendered coin. even now, coins that would have fallen within the scope of the act as of 31 aug 1971, may not be subject to item 10 with referance to "has at any time after 16th May 1969 ceased to be so", because of subsequent acts or act ammendements. ski.

hello Hello17......maybe a couple of pics would help.........left coin is a proof, right coin is a cameo proof........ski

it would be usefull to actually look at coins this act would have affected by being used after the aug31 1971 deadline that were subsequently demonitized after 16th may 1969. predecimal coins the florin, the shilling, the tanner were used beyond aug 31 1971 decimal coins 5p and 10p and 50p(the old large coins). the new 1/2 pence tiddler. these have all since been withdrawn after the 16th may 1969............but.... that doesnt mean that under section 10 of the 1971 act you need permission to melt them because later currency acts such as the currency act of 1983 may well have removed them from the list of section 3 1971 act. but you would be well advised to check first............. ..................ski

there were 2 decimal currency acts...1967 and a later act of 1969. due to decimalisation taking place, it was thought large numbers of coins would be lost to circulation by melting down for bullion etc, so the 1969 decimal act was passed to help prevent this along with details of conversion for banking etc. Decimal Currency Act 1969 1969 CHAPTER 19 An Act to make further provision in connection with the introduction of a decimal currency, and to impose restrictions on the melting or breaking of metal coins. there was set in this act of 1969, a date on which this act would be completed and the new act of 1971 would commence. if you now click open The coinage act of 1971, it reads thus:- Coinage Act 1971 1971 CHAPTER 24 An Act to consolidate, so far as they are part of the law of the United Kingdom, the Coinage Acts 1870 to 1946 and certain other enactments relating to coinage, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission. underneath this text is a box titled commencement information, click on the hyperlink. item 3 reads:- 3. The transitional period, as defined in section 16(1) of the Decimal Currency Act 1969, shall end with 31st August 1971. ie the 1971 act takes over. the explanatory note reads ;- EXPLANATORY NOTE This Order brings to an end on 31st August 1971 the transitional period under the Decimal Currency Act 1969. After the end of the transitional period all payments have to be made in the new currency, and the threepence and penny of the old currency cease to be legal tender. Ok now click youre browsers back button to get back to the 1971 act. Section 2 item 3 reads:- [F4(3)In this section “coins†means coins made by the Mint in accordance with this Act and not called in by proclamation under section 3 of this Act.]... please read that again...THIS ACT. The penny and threeepence were not covered by the act of 1971 as on the date the act commenced they were no longer legal tender and were not deemed as coins under section 2 of the 1971 act. they ceased to be coins when the decimal act of 1969 expired on aug 31st 1971. section 2 item 3 has in fact been updated with the currency act of 1983 and maybe even newer legislation. the currency act lists the coins that are current and to which the act of 1971 applies. So TO RECAP the need here in the 1971 act was to preserve numbers of coins in circulation as of 31 aug 1971 that would go beyond the transitional period ie the shilling and florin as they were still classed as coins under the 1971 act. the threepence and penny are not covered by this act, they were removed from being legal tender with the commencement of this act and are no longer classed as coins under the 1971 act and were no longer legal tender. you can drill em if you like...........ski