seuk

Think I got plenty of half finished projects all ready. I need first to get on with the other denominations - although they will be easier since there are fewer dies. Also I need to group and describe a few hundred dies for the Danish 1771 skilling which were minted in about 55 million copies from 1771-85. And I'm also playing with the idea of making my own system to sort the Northumbrian stycas out. Enough to keep me off the streets for a few years

The numbers etc. are my own invention (fx A701r is A = Group A, 7 = 1817, 01 die number, r = reverse). To my knowledge no one has published any kind of die study of these counterfeits. How many shilling do you have? ...or how many dies do you think exist? I admire your research. May I suggest that when you assign die numbers, you're missing a layer that wouldn't apply to official releases? Somewhere you need a way to identify (or at least group) the counterfeiter involved. Some will be known from contemporary reports, but no-one has matched dies to particular counterfeiters to my knowledge. If large-scale, there may be several dies associated, but otherwise there may be only one or two. I wonder if there is a way to link die characteristics to particular individuals? Except for the Ingley counterfeits of the 3/- BoE token there seems to be no way of identifying the individual coiners. Perhaps it may be possible to render which coins were made by William Booth but I'm not sure. We can only hope there's some evidence still hiding in the archives ...Scotland Yard? However more than 90% of the shillings belongs to groups which are connected with each others. So there's a fair chance they were all produced or controled by the same counterfeit ring.

About 50 new pictures added to the pages - so far I've researced 239 coins and found 110 different obverses and 124 reverses. However the actual number may be a little less as there could be a few hidden errors If we say that an obverse die could produce an average of about 50,000 coins the number of milled counterfeit shillings from these dies would be more than 5,000,000 or £275,000 The real figure will likely be much higher as I think I've only seen about half of the dies used, but that's pure guessing - will need to see alot more shilling to get an idea of the number of dies involved. I've always found it strange that there's almost no milled George IV counterfeits except for a few halfcrowns mainly of the year 1820. One could get the idea that the coiners stopped their production when George III died However after studying the shillings I think that they continued some years into the 1820s happily minting the old George III coins with the various dates available...

From BNJ Vol. 74, 2004 p.89 (H.E. Manville and P.P. Gaspar: The 1787 shilling): "When the semée omission was discovered about half-way through the production of shillings and sixpences, six 'hearts' (actually more like check-marks) were quietly added to individual dies by hand - along with the harp strings and one or two small punchings - such as the Westphalian horse in the Hanoverian arms. Thus there are two major types of the Bank's 1787 shillings and sixpences, known as 'without semée' or 'without hearts' and 'with semée' or 'with hearts', so there is a sequence. And this should not be a surprise since the inclusion of the semée is surely a question of right or wrong, not an opinon of taste. A correct representation of the Royal Arms requires its presence and what we have is almost certainly a corrected error."

http://www.theresia.name/en/

Glad to see that my variation system is useful Its indeed a group J - with the typical walrus Q - and made of brass. Due to the shilling being holed I guess are fair price is somewhere in the area of £1 to £5

The numbers etc. are my own invention (fx A701r is A = Group A, 7 = 1817, 01 die number, r = reverse). To my knowledge no one has published any kind of die study of these counterfeits. How many shilling do you have? ...or how many dies do you think exist?

Shilling groups more or less ready: http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.shilling_group_a.html

Due to the nature of counterfeits its rarely possible to identify the coiners responsible for individual coins. An exception: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6170&st=0&p=56938&fromsearch=1entry56938 Perhaps further studies may reveal other connections as such.

And the obverse groups http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.shilling_groups_obverse.html

Seuk should structure it all up and get it into a book. Web sites are OK, but they are transient and can be lost, damaged or whatever over time, especially if you don't pay your internet/domain name subscriptions. A book on the other hand will end up in the British Library and is there for future generations to read. Get writing as well as webbing!! Well right now its all at the very beginning - perhaps some day there will be material for a book. ...having a difficult time with the obverse dies (of the shilling) they are really quite complicated.

About a year+ ~ but I'm only beginning to gather the information in order to make the pages. I'm starting out with the shilling as its the most common/complicated coin in the series and hence a possible key to the other coins. I do plan to have pictures of genuine coin (from my white cabinet ) as I said the pages are incomplete and will likely have to be reworked several times.

Mostly you'll spot the fakes right away being of brass/copper/pewter colour - and those which are silvered are very rarely with complete silvering. The garnish is one of the ways to separate the various types of counterfeits not really to separate counterfeits from genuine as some counterfeits are cast hence details being identical to the genuine coins. (I'm not interested in the cast counterfeits as they are mostly small time effords and probably impossible to separate the moulds used). The domain name is a fanpage which I did from a legendary danish psych band. I guess its possible to make a separate domain but don't know how and I'll think people will find the pages no matter what they are called. I think the name has some impact on search results but you'll be able to google it anyway. Right now its all very incomplete and needs lots of work - but the great thing about a home page is you can work when you got the time and upload what you have - doen't need to be a completely finished thing like an article for a magazine.

an early date....possible gaming token

I'm sure there are undiscovered varieties nestling in the soil of every county. So one doesn't have to gather at least 2,000 coins before perhaps being lucky to discover an unknown die link...

Bought the following as a contemporary counterfeit of Henry II - but I'm not sure if it isn't really a genuine coin? There's no trace of plating and to me it looks as low quality silver (weight 1.3gr). Due to double strike its a little difficult reading but as far I can see its: Obverse: HENRICVS REX Reverse: HENRI ON LV? The R seem to have a small tab at top which should be class 5a-5b and the regular S will make it 5b hence King John (spink 1351) As I'm not familiar with these coins I would appreciate any opinion.

Thanks all for info I do have a weakness for coins of almost identical design and long period of minting like the Short Cross and the Edward penny. But I guess there's little chance of new discoveries in these fields or am I wrong?

The picture could be better but it doesn't look fake to me. There's a lot of fake 1818 and (more rarely) 1819 on ebay from time to time. Strangely I've yet to see 1817 and 1820. That is; of the type known to me - There may be other kinds of fakes around!

Miss Denmark...:

I have the coin packaged up at home ready to post back to the seller (I am in Australia until next weekend), he finally told me his address yesterday and has agreed a full refund, all going through eBay Resolution Centre. He claims he has had his own experts examine it and found nothing wrong, but if true they can only have been judging from the photos. I havent done this before and have a question - he isnt ging to refund me until he gets his coin back, what recourse do I have if he simply doesnt repay me after that, does anyone know? Does eBay step in? Thanks for any advice! Also, I have no idea how to check whether it's silver, does anyone know? I used to collect postage stamps as a kid. Some of the Edward VII (and others probably, but you will have to consul a catalogue) were printed on chalk paper. If you rub such a stamp with a silver coin it will leave a pencil-like mark. Not good for the postage stamp though

I feel this topic requires a separate section like the 'Confirmed unlisted varities' section. We have at least 3 threads on chinese George III forgeries: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6086&st=0&p=55626&fromsearch=1entry55626 + http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6260&st=0&p=57677&fromsearch=1entry57677 + http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6172&st=0&p=56997&fromsearch=1entry56997 - and there's probably a lot more similar posts on the forum.

Most contemporary counterfeits of William IV which I've seen are cast and made of some sort of dark grey metal (lead/zinc/tin/pewter) though I have a copy cast in brass also. They are of low weight from 9.2 to 10.5 gr.

I reported this one some time ago (and I'm sure others did as well). Its actually stamped with an R (Replica) on the reverse! I also wrote the seller who didn't react. Fortunately he didn't used private listings so I just had to make a small bid in order to inform the winner: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230726136899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 It will be interesting to see if a clear case like this will make ebay react in the future.