DaveG38

This might seem an odd question, because despite having a large collection of coins, I have never attended a coin fair. I am considering going up to Coinex in London next week and wondered if anybody has any general advice about it. For instance, now that the cheque guarantee card has been withdrawn, cheques are more risky so are traders less likely to take them? Is cash best, but if so carrying a couple of thousand (or more) might be foolish? Do dealers take cards using the stand alone machines or connected to a phone line at the hotel? I guess you get the idea. Also, how busy will it be? A rugby scrum or a pleasent experience? At my age the occasional sit down is nice - any chance? And possibly most important, is it really worthwhile or is it masses of the usual material. In other words, am I likley to find any of the missing rarities I need or is this pipe dream - e.g. a 1686 tin halfpenny - or even a more minor rarity such as a 1728 R&P shilling? Thoughts and advice much appreciated.

I don't think it does, Gary. Obverse 1 & 2a do, but not obverse 2 for 1903. See Gouby's website. Reading Gouby's site I take "1903 to 1906 - 3 Obverse dies" to mean that it does. So is the general concensus that it doesn't Mr Groom's book only refers to 1 and 2a - not straight Obv 2 Declan, All I can say is that I never came across any reference to obverse 2 being found on the 1903 shilling whilst researching the varieties book. However, I also never came across any references to varieties for the 1907 to 1910 series of shillings, yet an examination of a fair number of these showed that there are certainly differences between them for the same date. Mainly these relate to the shape of the legs of the 'R's in 'BRITT' and 'EDWARDUS', so I guess it may be possible that there is a obverse 2 for 1903.

In the case of the 1693 you already had a guide for VF-gVF, so the only questions that needed answering were 'how many are available and what grades are they?' If all are similar in grade then a reasonable assumption would be the date of the last sale, the price achieved and a multiplier to account for across the board price changes since that date together with a mark down for the lower grade of this piece. If something is sought after (and it's probably fair to say a 1693 is sought after), then maybe half the VF price would be a reasonable target. There are more than a handful of serious farthing collectors out there, plus the esoteric always appeals to someone who wants a quality collection in numismatic terms. Not everything has to be in high grade to appeal if rare enough, though it does help if it looks ok. I would have thought £3-4K incl. premium would not be excessive. At £2K I would have been over the moon if bidding and won it. I know where you are coming from on the question of certain key dates, but the problem with these is that the price is likely to be determined by the number of serious collectors present on the day and hence volatile. On the plus side, if Spink quote say £300 for a coin in their annual tome and you know full well that they always exceed that at auction, then it's clearly time to monitor their website and the Circular closely as you may well pick up one cheaply. They may list higher prices on their site than those quoted in the book, but are unlikely to exceed them by a vast amount. Do the spadework and it will pay off. I would have a problem paying 4k for a coin in F when a GVF would cost 9k. 4k for a farthing and it would have to be unique (and have eye appeal) The grade was VF-gVF. I don't know which side was VF and which gVF, but I use the assumption you use the lower graded side as the base rather than the higher and with only a handful known, I think £3K plus premium would not be so far short of the mark if genuinely rare, after all it is only a grade up. It would need eye appeal though if low grade and certainly not have any faults. Personally I think 9K for a VF-gVF farthing is a lot of money anyway, but if that is where the market is then so be it. At the time, my thinking was that the price ratio of VF:F for coins of that age and general rarity e.g. the 1689 halfpenny or the tin farthings was around 4:1. on this basis a £9k coin in VF equates roughly to £2.25K in Fine, so allowing for premiums my £2K limit was around £2.5K actual which is over the 4:1 ratio. Allow too for the slightly higher grade of the VF coin and £2k looked about right to me. However, it wasn't to be. I'm not too worried though, as although I have a complete date run of farthings, I don't actually collect trial and other non-currency pieces, so I don't include Queen Anne even though they circulated, and this wasn't a currency issue albeit some obviously circulated. At the time of the sale it looked an interesting buy, but the shine went off it at £2k, especially when it's authenticity was a little unclear.

I'm not sure why you are grumbling. The mere fact that you are aware of a price differential between quoted and reality means there is always a bit of scope for arbitrage. If the quoted price is too low, then just accept that you will have to pay more. After all, if you have paid a couple thousand for a 1934 crown or the 1989 proof set, then a sum less than this shouldn't be too much of a problem. The fact that you recognise the price in the books is way too low will give you an advantage over those who don't want to pay more than the reassuring figure quoted in whatever reference. People put off by quoted figures are competition eliminated - that's a reduction in the size of the problem because when you see a coin that's hard to find the chances are that others are looking for the same thing. Many collectors use price guides as a sort of comfort blanket when in reality it should never be more than a rule of thumb reference for the most commonly seen items. If CCGB quotes a price that is lower than Spink, many will not pay Spink prices because the other book says you can get it cheaper. The reality is though that both could be wrong as neither (can) take into account eye appeal, nor hope to comprehensively cover the market. Prices can be and frequently are out by a factor of two in either direction. Whilst I understand the logic of what you are saying, I personally quite like the reassurance of a guide price for a coin, as I may have no idea where to go with it. Without an idea, it may be likely that I will pay well over what it is really worth (yes, I know that's what somebody will pay and since I paid it that is its true value) and so judging what its worth to me is made that bit more difficult. For example, I was the losing bidder in the Cumbria auction for the 1693 farthing in F. There are no guide prices for this coin and little to go on, and so I stopped at £2K. My only guide was one on the CC website in VF/GVF which went for £9K. Without that £9K ceiling for the stated condition, I would have had no real idea of when to stop bidding. I guess my grumble isn't about the prices of truly rare coins, but the lack of realistic price and rarity of those which are currently considered to be of 'normal' availability. For me the 1843 shilling is a classic example.

1728 R&P - A tad optimistic on grade here. 1728 R&P 1728 R&P 1686 halfpenny (item 028) 1686 halfpenny Rob, Thanks for the information. I was probably aware of the Nicholson 1686 halfpenny but it had slipped my mind. As far as the 1728 shilling goes, it's nice to see that they exist - I just wish that one would come along in my price range. I guess what I'm grumbling about is that the price guides for these coins don't seem to reflect reality for the collector. So, if I never see a 1728 R&P shilling for sale in say VF condition, how come a price guide can specify what the price might be. My guess is that they don't really find examples of everything when compiling the new year's guide, but simply rely on the dates they do see and correlate these with those they don't. In this way, if they came up with a price for the 1728 say 20 years ago and never see another all they do is keep the price proportionally in line with say the historical differential with a 1728 plain. What this doesn't do, which is my grumble, is reassess the true rarity. A classic example of this is the 1843 shilling, which for years was given prices near to the 1842 and 1844, yet was almost never seen, and when I saw (and bought it) one the price was way off the guide book scale.

It's nice to see that there are plenty of 'ordinary' (no offence) collectors on here. I don't quite know why, but I sort of had the feeling you were all rich and top payers for top quality. My highest price was £1900 plus buyers premium for an EF 1934 crown a year or so ago and £2500 for the 1989 gold proof set. Otherwise, even my older stuff tends to be at sensible prices in the low hundreds or less. Occasionally I splash on something a bit dearer when it comes to filing gaps e.g. the 1689 farthing from Colin Cooke for a shade under £500. Trouble is that even in the low hundreds, its easy to burn cash at a phenomenal rate when several coins come up at once. Unfortunately that seems to be how it works. For ages there's nothing then a whole line of stuff comes along and I have to dig deep or cut Mrs G's frock allowance!! Some hope.

Nice bog head! Wonder whether cargo was bullion or coin Rumour has it the cargo was 1903 & 05 Halfcrowns...that would worry a couple of Chinese manufacturers. Interesting that the announcement of this find, which totals some 200 tons of silver, almost immediately depressed the bullion price for silver by about 20%. The price went from around £25 per troy ounce to £20 almost in an instant.

I've got one in my pocket right now and I don't think its in much poorer condition than this one.

Is it me? Because I can't see any sign of James II here and all for $100!!! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320763900930&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

No, you've lost me. +1 He's a well known eBay seller who sells much modern, common, easily avaialble coins for peanuts and probably makes a small living mostly off the extra bit added to the postage charges. He often sells decimal proofs and modern (Liz II) pre-decimal. If you want a 1986 proof twopence then he's your man - that sort of thing.

Thanks for the advice everyone. The only reason for considering the London Coin show is that I'm in the south east so London is the obvious choice of event to go to. Birmingham is 200 plus miles away, so a bit of a traipse. Overall, London doesn't seem to get a resounding thumbs up, so maybe I'll give it a miss and put the cost of attending towards a coin!!

He grades and slabs them himself, as I understand it. However, as has been said, if you like the coin and the price, then ignore the slab and buy.

A start point might be to go back to the last system restore point and see if that then clears the problem, although I doubt that an update would impact Outlook as its a very simple programme. The only other option I can think of that I have used in the past is to go to the accounts section of outlook and look through the details concerning the account that's misbehaving - in particular, take out the password and insert it again manually. I have found that this works sometimes. Otherwise, go through all the other details relating to the account, making sure that no boxes are checked that shouldn't be or vice versa.

Bilnic, Regarding Edward VII, you are right that there are varieties for 1904. In practice there are two obverses for 1904 and two reverses, giving 4 different types. For 1905 there are reportedly the same two obverses as for 1904, giving two varieties for this year, although obverse 1 is unconfirmed according to Davies. Similarly, for 1906 there are the same two obverses as for 1904 and 1905, giving two varieties.

Help, I'm confused dot com! My latest version of CCGB is 2007 (I buy one every few years) and I have been checking out the details of the 1911 shilling. According to Davies, there are 3 obverse and 1 reverse for this year giving 1+A, 2+A and 3+A types. According to CCGB2007 (and earlier issues e.g. 1998 and 1990) the 1911 shilling comes as 2 obverse and 2 reverses all fully meshed to give 1+A, 1+B, 2+A and 2+B. However, the differentiator for the reverses is the pointing of the 'I' in 'GEORGIVS.' The problem is that this inscription appears on the obverse NOT the reverse, so my questions are: 1) Are there 4 obverses based on the combinations of hollow/flat neck and 'I' to a bead/space or just the 3 reported by Davies? If Davies, the non-existent one is the flat neck with 'I' to a space combination. Anybody got one? 2) Are there any reverse die types other than A that anybody knows about? If so what are they paired with? 3) Is this error put right in later CCGBs? DaveG38

I can't remember too many of them. They were going as a blur of bulk lots, but I was just generally struck by the way in which the same online bidder was scooping up pretty much every bulk lot regardless of price. And prices were almost always going into the hundreds and that's before the buyer's premium plus VAT (18%). I can only think that the buyer has a history of doing this and knows that with bulk lots of the kind being sold, the sheer number of coins, even at 99p or so will still turn a profit, especially with a little bit of extra on the postage. What I can't get my head around is the sheer tedium involved in photographing, listing, packing and posting all those coins as part of the eBay process. The numbers of coins involved for this guy from the auction must run into several thousands, if not 10 thousand. Alternatively, maybe he wants them for his shop or stall as kiloware or lucky dips, still with an eye to making an overall profit, albeit slowly.

Example please ? Too many to mention, but how about 130 florins of George V and VI (50% silver type plus cupro-nickel) in average circulated condition going at a bit under £500, which with buyers premium plus VAT is around £600. Also large numbers of bulk lots of mostly 20th Century or foreign, going for hundreds of pounds at a time. Many went to the same bidder, who I very much doubt had gone through each lot to find the gems that would turn a profit on these lots. I just found it extraordinary compared to say the prices at one of the specialist coin auctions. Most likly a dealer hoovering up bulk lots but it was difficult to see any easy profits - just a hell of a lot of hard work to turn them out to collectors, whether on eBay or at fairs.

Was it just me or were prices going absolutely mad? I watched most of the lots go and the gold went pretty much at the bullion price with very little bidding. However, many of the other multiple coin lots seemed to go for phenonenally high prices and many to the same online bidder. Did anybody else watch or buy anything? Did you think it looked crazy like I did?

I should learn to read posts from beginning to end! Thanks Dave. And I thought you were being modest!!

For a good standardisation of UK grading, you need the book entitled 'The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins: Pre-decimal Issues (1797 to 1970)' by Derek Allen. Copies are currently available on Amazon for around £7.94.

Peter, Are you sure you don't want to be called Rob? A bit like Rodney always being Dave! Whilst you consider these important matters, I'll just thank you for looking through your Coin/Coin Monthly magazines. Sadly the one you have found is the one I already have just before the May issue. The Mar/Apr one mentions what will be in the next issue and, since this isn't the same as what is in the May issue, it's pretty certain that there's at least one more that I don't have. Oh well it was worth a shot and thanks again. Regards. DaveG38

I will check out my stash tonight. It says a lot when I recently took 100+ coin news to the dump and yet I still have plenty of monthlies hanging around complete with post-its. Thanks Rob. Anything you can add would be much appreciated. I too have around 120 or so duplicates waiting for a new home. Mostly around the early 1980s, but not 1980 itself.

You would be a real Hero Dave, if you could scan them all in and publish a PDF..... I wonder who owns the copyright? Mmmm, intersting idea. By my reckoning the publication ran from Nov 1966 until at least Feb 1992, which is 25 years and 4 months, plus however many months there are after Feb 1992. During 1979 and 1980, there was a period of about 8 months when two editions were published. So, by my reckoning that makes around 312 issues, plus any beyond Feb 1992. Say 320 in all. In its prime, it had around 130 pages per issue, but in its early days 70 or so and around 80 just before it died. So lets say that's 100 pages per edition on average. So, 32,000 ish scans. Do I feel that heroic? That's a lot of work, but I might consider it if I could be sure that there are no copyright issues any longer. Does anybody know what the law says and how to establish ownership? Publication could be as a CD/DVD depending on file sizes. Maybe a boxed set! And the final question, would anybody want it? My other half would as it would clear out one shelf of a cupboard - room for more dresses! Interestingly, the lady who owns the small shop next to where my wife works told me that she was employed by Coin Monthloy in the late 1980s/1990s on the sales/editorial team. I'm not sure what as exactly, but its a small world.

Think yourself lucky. I once got a Max Bygraves vinyl record from mine and this was at the time of the meteoric rise of the Beatles and the Stones. I don't think it ever got a play, so its 'Uncirculated'. Get it!! :rolleyes: :D :lol:

Ok, own up, which one of you outbid me on the 1693 farthing earlier today? I need to know which effigy to stick the pins into!