DaveG38

I'd agree about the 1864 (both types) and the 1875H from the Victorian era. Even 1869 is easier to get in a very high grade than those two. Also, I agree with earlier comments about the fallibility of the Freeman rarity estimates. Obviously they were never really any better than inspired guesswork. Nonetheless, that doesn't really explain why there are so few 1926ME's in high grade. For a coin a lot younger than the buns I referred to, and only 45 years old at demonetisation, it is hard to explain IMO. If I had to put a guess on how many of the original mintage were modified, I'd say 15-20%, something of that order. Again though, pure guesswork. No real way of knowing. Thanks for all the comments & opinions, chaps. In 1926 there had been no pennies issued for 3 years. Then demand must have increased enough to warrant an issue, even though the modified effigy must have been close to readiness. Assuming the normal run of casual collectors who habitually put a BU penny aside, the first run of 1926s must have satisfied that urge. By the time the ME came along (at the end of the year?) would people have readily seen the difference between the two types anyway? By the time they did, the 1927 pennny would have emerged in large quantities so those got put aside instead. I'm really thinking the 1926ME 'slipped beneath the radar' as far as being noticed. I'd agree about the 1864 (both types) and the 1875H from the Victorian era. Even 1869 is easier to get in a very high grade than those two. Also, I agree with earlier comments about the fallibility of the Freeman rarity estimates. Obviously they were never really any better than inspired guesswork. Nonetheless, that doesn't really explain why there are so few 1926ME's in high grade. For a coin a lot younger than the buns I referred to, and only 45 years old at demonetisation, it is hard to explain IMO. If I had to put a guess on how many of the original mintage were modified, I'd say 15-20%, something of that order. Again though, pure guesswork. No real way of knowing. Thanks for all the comments & opinions, chaps. Surely rarity figures are all nonsence now due to decimalisation. I would guess only 10% of pennies exist now and all the so called rarities were stripped for circulatiion beforehand. The playing field is much levelled now a days and H and KNs are as common as 1967 pennies. That's a very good point, though I'd hardly claim parity between H & KNs with 1967!! We're on the same wavelength here Derek. As a schoolboy it took me a year to suss that my first-ever 1926 penny from change, was the ME ! Back in '26, I'm wondering how many people actually noticed, especially considering how few there were anyway? It would be interesting to get some coin magazines/annuals from around that time to see whether or not they are mentioned. The best we are likley to get are the studies of coins undertaken by various heroic numismatists in the early to mid 1970s when surveys of coins in circulation were being carried out and the results reported in Coin Monthly. I've got most of them, so if I find a spare hundred hours, I'll see what was being reported at the time. However, as has I think already been said, they were probably already taken from circulation by then.

Coin and Medal News Peckris, Thank you for reminding me - ageing is such a terrible handicap!! On a slighly different take on this, I have found that it's easy to find old copies of Coin Monthly Mag - I have pretty much a complete set through to 1984, but I don't think I have ever seen a single copy of Coin and Medal News from that same period for sale on eBay or anywhere else. It's also the case that some dates for Coin Monthly are pretty much impossible to find. 1986 seems to be very hard to find, as are the final copis in 1992. Anybody any ideas why, or where I can find them?

I can see the case for melting down low grade non-collectable 20th century worn out cr*p, such as you find in large boxes at general auctions (leaving out all the rare varieties that can be foudn there). Apart from trying to introduce youngsters to the joys of collecting they have no numismatic value or collectability (is this a word?) and can be scrapped with a clear conscience. Obviously older and better condition coins is a different matter. What I'm not sure about are the older poor condition coins that we all accumulate. I've got a box of fair to poor condition George III and IV Crowns and half crowns plus some Victorian, which are worth nothing more than scrap and which I guess I could make a nice profit on given the current price of Silver. Should they be melted? I suppose so and yet.....

In defence of Coin News, I would argue that they are up against in in today's market compared to the time when Coin Monthly was issued. In terms of pages per issue, Coin News certainly looks slimmer than Coin Monthly, but its paper size is twice that of Coin Monthly, so there's not a lot in it for sheer quantity of print. Coin News looks nicer with its colour plates as opposed to Coin Monthly which was black and white and more amateurish than today's sophisticated mags. The format of both is very similar though. In Coin News there are ads from dealers, news about new issues, articles on different eras or coin types, stuff on books, prices for UK coins etc. all pretty much as there was for Coin Monthly. The one area where Coin Monthly had the edge was that it was first produced in November 1966 and ran through to 1992, I think. It straddled the era of the changeover from LSD to decimal and was able to report on many studies made by amateur numismatists on different aspects of the outgoing coinage as well as the new decimal types. Its noticeable that many of the 20th Century varieties were discovered through these studies and this is certainly the case for the early decimal coins. It also attracted a good monthly circulation, again probably because of the surge in interest that D-Day had generated. Once the initial interest in both types settled down, it became more difficult for Coin Monthly to keep finding material of interest from the LSD era and the size and quality of the publication started to dwindle, together with its circulation until it was very thin indeed around the mid to late 1980s. If you look at a 1990s example, it is a shadow of the earlier ones with very little to commend it, so it wasn't very surprising that it fell in 1992. In my view Coin News, which was called something else in its earlier form but I can't remember what, has done well to weather these changes and still keep going, particularly as it doesn't have the advantage of studies of coins in circulation to report on (nobody seems interested in looking at decimal, beyond that which was known about in the 1980s). I guess this is why it tends to have material on all sorts of 'uninteresting' areas each month.

Well... I stand by my assertion that there is certainly a new breed of ebay "dealer" Most of them know bugger all about coins, rarities, values or anything else and just see 300 coins being worth £5 each = £1500 on a £120-£140 estimate. They buy them and try and punt them on to some unsuspecting newbie collector. They are driving the market at the bottom end. People like me that used to do very well on bulk lots at all of the major sales are now winning bugger all because we know that 300 coins with that estimate are probably worth £600 tops (minus fees, tax, accountancy fees, advertising etc etc because we are registered with HM govt as taxpayers). We now have to buy small named lots with coins pictured (if bidding blind) or single high value items, so we are pushing the high end coin prices up. Add into the mix the new breed of cash rich investor and the old school collectors (who both have to pay more because of people like me) and you have your answer. The other big problem for knowledgeable buyers is the gold and silver price hike. An 1887 half sov was worth about £110/£120 before the surge in gold, it's now worth £110/£120 resale as are all of the commoner dates. Bulk silver lots are now worth more as scrap than they are as coins so we are also facing competition from traditional antique dealers who move in like sharks once they smell quick profits (although the margins are small the turnaround is immediate). All in all it's a tough world at the moment for those of us who do this for a living. I hope Peck is correct and the bubble deflates slightly or we'll all be finding it easier to get a mortgage than we will to buy decent coins! I'm really not sure what the drivers are, but the surge in market prices is clear. It's interesting to make a comparison with another very similar commodity, stamps. As a young lad I collected both but actually favoured stamps over coins for some reason. I well remember, at age 10, selling my train set for £10 to buy a penny black! Today I still have both the stamps and coins I collected and guess what, the stamps are virtually worthless by comparison to the coins. Take a look at stamps on eBay which don't even come close to their prices of 30 years ago and many of which are now almost unsaleable. So why has the staple of all teenage collectors, the postage stamp, fallen by the wayside while coins have grown in popularity? When times are hard, investments tend to regress towards what people regard as their intrinsic vale. This is particularly apparent in the gold coin market where intrinsic=bullion and any investor can instantly asses value. By comparison, many other forms of investment are a lot less attractive. When it comes down to it, stamps are just paper rectangles! Now we come to the guesswork. What if the attractiveness of gold coins as an investment vehicle, particularly through eBay, has created a whole new breed of collector? What if these buyers have seen other, perhaps more interesting, coins listed alongside their beloved sovereigns and have decided to take a punt? What if one purchase has become two, then three, then the beginnings of a collection? Remember, these will generally be well-heeled investors as sovereigns aren't cheap. As I say, it's guesswork but something is happening and people are spending lots of money. and there has to be a reason for it! As I think I have posted before on here, part of the meteoric rise in gold in recent years is the realisation by seasoned investors that the US dollar is still in big trouble. The US deficit is truly enormous, growth in the US economy is relatively slow and cannot come from the retail sector due to high unemployment. You can't easily raise taxes in this situation and this means the only way in which the bills can be paid is for the governement to effectively devalue the dollar by printing money and allowing inflation to take off thus eroding value. The net result for the canny investor has been to divest himself of dollars and dash for gold. Add to this the incredibly low bank interest rates and even ordinary investors are looking for alternatives for their cash. Property looks a poor bet as in the UK, in particular, it is unlikely that prices will take off as they have over the past 15 years or so, so that avenue is closed off too. So where do they go? Gold and 'rare/investment' coins and in my view, these are the key drivers for the present hike. My guess is that it will only stop when the first signs of the economy upturning come in and investors start to turn to more conventional investments. If a lot of them start to 'dump' their coins on the market we could see prices start to tumble i.e. a good time to buy if you want particular coins at a better price, just wait a while for coins to level down. The other factor as identified by others is the worldwide reach of eBay and the, in my view, fact that pre-decimal UK coins are very attractive to collectors. All in all, a perfect storm for driving prices up, but I am under no illusions that this will continue. All bubbles burst - it's just a matter of when.

Colin G, Prices from the 2011 Spink are: F - 20 VF - 80 EF - 275 UNC - Not Quoted.

Peanuts. The first has COPY on the obverse which is a bit of a giveaway. The second has little pits all over the surface which is indicative of a cast and it also has COPY inside the inner circle on the reverse at 4 o'clock. Well spotted. I was looking for wrl or the small cloverlike mark and didn't see the 'copy' word. Duuuh!!

The second coin appears to be a Mary Fine Sovereign with a value of 30 shillings and dated 1553. However, there are modern forgeries of these, so you will need an expert opinion about its bona fides before you get too excited. I don't know enough about them to say whether yours is a forgery or not.

Don't see why not if we can have Fcuk on every High Street!!

A possible explanation of the differences in shape, spacing and general appearence of the border teeth and rim on the obverse is that there were specimens of the early George V coins where the obverse rim is abnormally raised. This applies to 1911, 1912 and 1913.

That looks like WRL engraved on the reverse under the shield on the left. If so, then it stands for Westair Reproductions Ltd, which pretty much confirms what it is, I'm afraid.

This a is a long shot and probably completely wrong, but it might spark some dabate. Some of you may be aware that as a student I worked for J Lyons and Co Ltd in many of their teashops, and I collect anything numismatic with a Lyons theme. As part of this I have a couple of penny sized tokens, made of brass, with large letters engraved on them - a P on one and a Q on the other. Subsequently, I have found that these were almost certainly used for the staff/management to gain access to the public toilets. The size is just right for 'spending a penny' as the brass just fitted the slots in those days when loos weren't free. Subsequently, the tokens were recovered when the door locks were opened and the money retrieved. So, I wonder if this token could be something similar, except that it would apply to the Royal Mint. The 'L' might refer to ladies, although I can't then explain the small 'w'. This theory would probably only be feasible if the token is about the size of a penny or maybe halfpenny, depending on its age. Any views?

I have a different view on eBay. Currently they charge 10% of final price (up to a max of £40.00) plus listing fees of between 1.6% and 15% depending on the start price for the item. Anybody with sense either uses the free facility of under £1.00 or makes sure the starting price is both realistic and in the right price bracket to minimise the fees at the lower end of the scale. With sensible use the listing fees can be kept down to around 2.5% or so. Then add in Paypal charges and this puts a further 4.3% or so on the cost to the dealer. So with care and sensible starting prices its possible to limit the charges to around 17% of the total. Sounds quite a alot, but.... Now compare this to auctions, where the sellers fees are anything up to 20% and the buyer's premium, plus VAT has to be added in, again anything around 15% or so is normal and for a standard auction you are paying some 33-37% or so. Yes, I know that the buyers pay the buyer's premium, but that cost is factored into their bid price, so ultimately it comes off the seller. When it comes to exposure, the internet does level the playing field of most auctions and gives a worldwide audience, as does eBay, but eBay also attracts the more amateur buyers and so I reckon overall the eBay audience is wider. Overall, therefore, I find that eBay works on both attracting an audience and on cost to the seller. If you want to argue that auction prices are a rip off in general, well that's another issue altogether.

The only issue I have with it is why there isn't a '0' on the end of the sentences. And if we did it every time, we might clear these kinds of people away permanently, leaving the country a whole lot nicer place to live.

Here's a pic of the coin. For some reason the Bluetooth doesn't show up too well - probably the angle of the light. You can also tell that this is the correct die from the fact that its a lifelike portrait with the queen having warts!!!

RobJ, My most interesting is a 2006 example, with the queen wearing a Bluetooth.

You are probably right that it's just a spare piece of metal. I've got several new design 20ps with all sorts of minor crap on them. I keep them for interest but I doubt they will have any special value over time. I'm just a bit surprised that the Mint seems to have such trouble with quality control, although I guess once in circulation, such coins are just that, circulating coins.

Lots of 2009 £2 coins appearing now - I've had 4 of the technology ones in the last couple of days down here in the SE.

I've just pulled an at/between out of my pocket, but EF it ain't!!

Hi les occ, There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

The small one is a 6 pence from South Africa.

Whenever you see a policeman over Christmas, remember you are bound to get off if you tell him 'I'm not as think as you drunk I am, ociffer.'

I've got a Celestron telescope and it's so powerful it can show pennies on the moon. Don't know anything about their microscopes though.

Hi all, From a comment I made to Declanwmagee about the 1921 shillings several of you have picked up on the fact that my latest literary offering is now available. Following the extraordinary success of 'The Identification of British 20th Century Bronze Coin Varieties' whose sales have topped the hundred (J K Rowling watch out), I have been putting together a sequal entitled 'The Identification of British 20th Century Silver Coin Varieties.' This is now ready and available to the collecting public as I have just had my first batch back from the printers. So, if you are a collector of 20thC silver/cupro-nickel and are interested in varieties then this is for you. If you missed out on the 'bronze' book, then I still have copies of this available as well. Cost of the 'silver' book is £9.99 (240 pages long) and the bronze is £6.99 (140 pages long). Postage in the UK is £3.00. these prices are the 'special deal' prices for forum members. When the latest gets to Amazon in a few months, it'll be £14.99 - bronze is already on there at £12.99, so if you want the 'deal' please let me know. Several members have the bronze book, so if anybody wants to know what its like then GaryD is probably a good man to comment. So far as the silver one goes, Aardhawk has one, so he may be willing to comment also from an unbiased perspective. If anybody wants either book, then you can get one form me either by: 1. Sending a cheque to me at: David Groom 5 Linden avenue Whitstable Kent CT5 1RX 2. Via Paypal using the email address ukc801988231@btconnect.com. You never get spam with am email address like this - no signs of cheap viagra!

Hi Ski, Yes, I have a few left, so no problem. Use either of the payment methods I mention in my opening post and I'll send you one on. DaveG38