pokal02

There are some strange crowns out there after a bit of a lull - a distinctly fake-looking 1844 that someone wants £3,000 for, another 1844 (from a different seller) graded B Unc which is little better than Fine, and a 1703 at the bargain price of... £70,200.

I remember the old penny falls and looking to see if there were any old ones ready to fall. I remember spotting an 1895 (when I was trying to complete a date set 1860-1967) and spending about 2/- before it finally fell. It's the only coin from my very early phase of collecting (I was about seven years old) that I still have. Also trying for an 1883 a couple of years later, running out of money, and getting it by putting a lolly stick into the slot. (Hope the statute of limitations has expired on that!)

Just two pre-47s in the 80s for me - 1940 & 1946 shillings, both in surprisingly good nick suggesting that they hadn't circulated for all that time. Remember getting G V silver in abundance in the late 60's/early 70s, only ever got one pre-1920 (Edw VII 6d, date unreadable).

Got the 1646 Oxford groat at DNW today (a considerably worse coin than I'd have liked, but I'm at the 'beggars can't be choosers' stage now). Still on the lookout for the Edward IV...

Rarity holds its value too - look at the recent price for the Ashby groat which wasn't even Fine - I guess quality is just a different sort of rarity (to me, paying £29k or so for a 1726 Crown is madness but if it's one of only 2 or 3 in that grade, I can see why some would go for it).

Yes, a few prices seemed 'over the top' to me - I'm glad I virtually completed this series some years ago, as there are a few I could never afford now.

I'm also running out of space - I might have a closer look at a cabinet - for now I've moved half my collection to a secure facility elsewhere (this also spreads the risk - I'd rather have a 1% chance of losing half the collection due to fire/burglary etc than a 0.5% chance of losing all of it).

ebay's gone a bit haywire recently. Some joker wants £85,000 for a St Peter penny and another wants over £39,000 for an 1839 crown. I don't care how rare they are or how much 'eye appeal ' they've got, this is just silly.

Was outbid on both that I went for, £3k was more than enough for the halfpound, £1.3k fairly reasonable for the Ceolwulf I 1d - less than it sold for last time - (didn't want to go too much over book for such a moderate specimen). Prices generally weren't quite as high as I would have guessed.

I'd also say the top end of GVF, would expect 50% of collectors (and 99% of dealers ) to grade it NEF or AEF though.

I won't be there so would be grateful if you could have a look, many thanks Rob

The Ashby groat was too hot for me, going for 10 times estimate. This was the one strand of my collection that I had hopes of completing (crowns being barred by 1674, shillings by Henry VII and pennies by Beorthric among others) - but no longer, especially as that was the worse of the two known specimens. I'll just have to start collecting double-florins...

It's the way things are going nowadays - if I had £12k to spare (alas, I don't) I'd rather have 20 different early milled in, say, GF than one in EF but know I'm in the minority. Having said that, the estimate looks very low (assuming it's a proper EF - DNW are a tad lenient I think).

I've bought a few times from him and am always satisfied. He seems to turn up more rare/unusual hammered stuff than most.

DNW was a bit strange altogether yesterday - I was watching the Tudor hammered silver, which was mostly fair to middling grade-wise - some was going well under estimate and some well over - got the lot I wanted though.

The trick is to pay more for the 'right' coins and keep patient. I'm still irked that I paid £400 a few years ago for a 1662 Crown then worth half that (it was one of the rarer edge varieties but another one at a more reasonable price would no doubt have turned up). On the other hand I've paid double book price for some rarities which have proved a good investment in the long run. I find that many of the less rare coins I'm looking for only turn up in good or bad condition whereas I'm really looking for middling - e.g. it's easy to find a 1645 groat at either £200 or £1000+ but I'd be looking at say £500 - nothing doing!. So have to keep my discipline!

Definitely agree that VF grade now is lower than 30 years ago - the big divide then was F to VF, now it's VF to EF (although EF has also come down a bit from what it used to be).

Spink's 2018 catalogue has finally dropped the (non-existent, I think) 1845 star stop crowns.

The problem with proofs and patterns, especially the latter, is what to put in and what to omit (I like the idea of a separate volume as they could then include everything, although a lot of the prices would be meaningless). At present they include for example the Briot pattern halfgroat of Charles I - why this and and not some of the other Briot patterns and the Edward Greene groat? Why a Reddite crown but not the (much less rare) Garter 1804 dollar? A minor gripe as a crown collector is that 1551-53 are the only dates not listed separately (1553 I would say being about 20% pricier that 1551) although 1642 & 1643 Oxford (S2946 & S2946A), which have always been given the same price, are split. Another inconsistency is that the Exeter crowns alone are differentiated by mint mark - why not then the Tower issues (and James I & 1551 Y & tun) which would have as much/more rarity/price variation. .

Yes, wouldn't argue with either Fine or GF

I think they'd be better off hiving the proofs and patterns to another book like they've done with the decimals. I tend to agree listing coins like the Petition crown is a bit silly, the few collectors who are thinking of spending six-figure sums on a coin are unlikely to be influenced by ESC anyway.

I'm fairly new to Roman and for now am concentrating on London Mint issues - Spink describes them as 'billon' up to Maximian & 'AE' thereafter. I've seen various items described as 'billon', copper' and bronze in dealers lists. It's my understanding that all the London Mint folles/nummi/'AE3's contained some silver, starting with about 4% and gradually reducing to nearer 2% - is this correct? (The later coins of Constantine I/Crispus seem to turn up silvered more often). Does a coin need a certain amount of silver to be described as billon rather than bronze, or are some dealers just deciding that if a coin looks bronze/copper they'll describe it that way? .

Baldwin's Winter Price List has quite a decent one at £9,995. I have one in about F and slightly bent - don't think I'll ever be able to upgrade!

I think the green box is perhaps twice as rare as the burgundy (I've never seen a blue one), do others agree?

..and they're selling Charles II & William III Crowns in Fine for £395 and £325 as part of their 'Historic' range - it's starting to look like Coincraft.