Coinery

pretty certain that's a Lennox 4! If you agree that's IACO starting at 1 O'Clock?

Richmond 2

Neither are Irish, will dig the book out in a bit!

That doesn't look Irish to me, Geoff! The legend on the obverse generally starts at 7 O'Clock, and is on an oval flan, have the got the obverse image? I'll put my Irish farthing up a bit later!

Happy New Year to you too, Hny!

This isn't to stir-up an old debate about slabbing, but what do you think of this 221275625618 and maybe even this 221275625610 ? Nice coins, but the first looks especially similar to experiments I've had with a pot of Goddards! I wonder whether CGS slab dipped, but not 'cleaned' coins, on account it would be very difficult to say that a lightly dipped coin wasn't in fact a vacuum, or otherwise well stored coin, from any given era?

So, we thought...2 choices...IKEA, Tesco, Sainsbury's...OR eBay! £2.99 per bowl with a bit O history you just don't get with Ikea! Perfect for HMS ORCA! 321283306583

Great example, Clive, exactly what I was talking about! It would eventually have circulated in the time of the 6d, so presumably the point at which an upgrade was attempted! I think I've still got a HG around with a primitively engraved rose! Can't blame 'em for trying!

I wonder whether coins would have been scratched only by those seeking to make sure the maid or boy, or even themselves, would not mistake the coinage at the market place, maybe, so would not be about deception, just about clarity, especially with other larger unmarked denominations around (even 6d's without roses, which might make you wary?)! I don't think a receiver would be taken in by a scratched cross, just useful to the bearer! I believe the scallywags would be more concerned with removing the rose from 6d's, and engraving them on half groats! I've seen two examples of poor rose engravings on halfgroats! Re J1 crosses, it could just be a matter of habit, following a quick weighing, until the 'old problem' had passed? Just speculation, but it really floats my boat in the absence of any historical fact!

It's interesting that Elizabeth adopted the 'no mark of value,' when Edward before her, and monarchs subsequently, had them on the shillings! I feel that's a bit of a eureka moment!

Sadly I don't have any, and certainly not of the E1 shilling, as that's a genuine tone! I'd be happy to revive this thread next year sometime with some before and after images, if that would be of interest?

I've been meaning to share this for some time, but kept forgetting to photograph it! This was a gleaming BU-bright, coin, which became part of a series of my own experiments into what could be achieved with various different chemical processes! As with dipping, this was something I carried out as part of my own 'practical' studies into what could be achieved by the unscrupulous, and what I could look out for in the future! This particular coin has bounced around in my wallet for about 6 months now, so is looking rather bag-marked! It is one of the better results, but I noted others which, whilst they looked convincing, they never quite made the grade, so to speak! I have seen coins on the 'bay which have looked so close to some of my own 'nearlies' that I have left them alone. Anyway, just thought I'd show you, if only to add another dimension to dipping and toning! Incidentally, the cooked yolks of boiled eggs was another good result, though a tad whiffy!

In view of the differing devices, lettering, lis, lions, etc, it looks to have been carved directly onto the dies, rather than made up from individual punches! I can't see anything obvious that might suggest casting from moulds, so I'm thinking hammered and contemporary, any thoughts?

Right before my eyes!!

I perhaps shouldn't have been so vague, I was meaning the two further scratches forming XII! I wonder whether the X we often see on shillings was put there by some folk to use as a clear identifier when storing or spending their money?

Its best effect is on silver, it's used predominantly by the jewellery industry to 'age' silver for artistic effect! I learnt a lot from playing around with the various combinations, also using toothpaste for highlighting! Hammered coins can be totally blackened and then highlighted to look similar in effect to the reverse of this coin (which is 100% natural toning in this example, I hasten to add, though I'd say it's been 'artistically' cleaned/highlighted in the past - very pretty, though) I must state clearly here that I have only ever experimented with artificial toning to better my own understanding of what makes for a tampered, or recently toned coin! When done well, it's very difficult to tell! However, success isn't always guaranteed, the variables are immense and, statistically speaking, I'd say the imperfect result weigh at 75%, so of no use to the numismatist! Good for spotting the crook's attempts though, which are far and few between it's fair to say!

Firstly, what a shame the bust isn't struck-up on this one, you could cut your fingers on the legends! 261363485603 (link anyone?) Secondly, this coin has a cross scratched into the field, BUT it also has something else that offers a strong and obvious possibily into why these coins are marked in this way? Another interesting point, which hadn't occurred to me before, is that I haven't noticed the cross on 6d's.

I grant you it's a whole lot better to buy than sell on eBay, there's a serious imbalance! Even if eBay get things wrong, whichever way the pendulum swings, they still get millions...bar stewards that they are!

Not for me, no. Imagine the exact same situation with brand new proof dies and a polished blank. It's still going to be slightly sharper than your currency piece and should get a higher score.So I guess there is a finite number, less than 100, for a currency piece, not that we'd ever get CGS to acknowledge what that number is? A currency 91 must already be a scary proposition for them!

Blistering white! I'll put up the UIN tomorrow, and get a photo up too! I've been meaning to crack it out for about 6 months, so will do so when the camera next comes out!

Bearing in mind there are such things as brand spanking new currency dies...if you could press the very first currency coin from that pair of dies and remove it from the machine with cotton gloves and present it to CGS, that would be FDC and worth 100 wouldn't it? Nb: I'm going to post my bright, former AU, now UNC, 1897 XII, just to ask your thoughts on its tonal status!

Just to clarify, in case I've gone off track...I was basically thinking that an 'atrocious' attempt at counterfeiting doesn't instantly reject it as being contemporary on the basis 'you'd never pass that off as genuine' in Tudor or Stuart England!

??? most likely by folk who handled a lot of coins - a slivver of silver from the one coin you saw in 12 months would have no market Good point, David...I was just trying to explain away how an obvious 'unlikeness' of a type was not spotted? I would expect regular handlers of contemporary coinage to have spotted a dud??

Yes, I couldn't imagine for a second that CGS would tie themselves into the knot of a 'perfect' currency piece, 'just in case a better one came along'!