Coinery

Pray tell, I have a fake 1905 half crown and wish I knew what points it out as a fake. From what I gleaned on this very forum, there's a small break in the R of EDWARDVS that is the prime giveaway on many of them. But there may be other flaws on those from other sources? Are you certain that this only appears on fakes? I have seen more 1905 halfcrowns with the defect on the R of EDWARDVS, than without. The EF example in the Andrew Scothern collection (being auctioned by DNW later this month) also has the defect. The only giveaway of fakes that I'm aware of is the wonky I of QVI on the reverse. Are the fakes Silver, and the right weight? This is the sort of detail the forgery website needs if it's going to be useful.

Hammered coin dies were just a piece of diestock with the design engraved on the end. When a new design was required, all they did was rub down the old one and re-engrave with the new. A die could therefore have many re-incarnations. Sometimes there was sufficient detail remaining from the previous die(s) to work out what it was before, so the Chester declaration reverse die was previously Oxford halfcrown 1643 rev. 23 for example. It also appears to have been one of the small date 1644 dies too, but I'm still working on that one. The obverse die with which the declaration reverse is paired was recut from the CHST below the horse die, but the re-engraving was rotated and displaced from the original, so we can be certain that the die was of a greater diameter than that of a halfcrown because they wouldn't have engraved only half the design with the remainder off the side of the die! Next coin up would be a crown, but equally could have been big enough to accommodate a triple unite or a pound/half-pound. It also explains why some dies are far too big for the denomination on which they are found. A Shrewsbury shilling reverse and Oxford halfcrown 1645 rev.7 immediately spring to mind. That's really interesting Rob, and something I'll be looking out for in future. You'd have to have some staggering grades to spot it though! A good comparison/example of your point would be very welcome if you get five minutes spare?

I think it all comes down to an attempt to best describe the grade of your coin, using contemporary descriptors, as best as you can. Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether you're buying two VF coins (in your opinion), one from a dealer, described as NVF, and one from eBay, described as GEF, you still have to decide for yourself what you have, and whether you're pleased with it. You won't find out whether you bought well until you come to sell it. When it comes down to selling a coin, it's very difficult in a world now full of UNCs, not to use the term yourself. 95% of coin collectors probably still rely on someone else to tell them what grade their coin is, which means if my coin is better than someone else's 'UNC' and I call it a GEF or AU, it's never even going to get looked at! Personally, I 'm still trying to be true to my own standards, but it doesn't line the pockets so well!

Interesting re crown-sized dies for halfcrown designs, something I'd never considered before! Oh, and another nice example coin again!

No online bidding that I know of, you'd be crazy to distance bid at Croydon. From the two visits I've made, I'd say the grading's very ambitious, and major flaws are largely overlooked in the descriptions! I'd be there every time, however, if I lived on the doorstep as you do!

In theory, forgerynetwork.com should be a place to consult for such things. But I have to admit that I've not posted anything there for a while and I really don't know how many people are aware it exists .. I tried making use of forgery network on a number of occasions, and mostly gave up in frustration. The principle's great, but the actuality is less than satisfactory! Also, it's really hard to trust the additions on a site like that...who verifies? I bought an Elizabeth I coin recently, that was being sold as a contemporary counterfeit of a threepence. How gutted was I to find it was actually a very knackered, but genuine, halfgroat!

I'm holding a 1905 shilling of John's which looks very good, outside of super-macro photography! Regular photos wouldn't expose it, it's that good!

Have you read about the ghost of Matthew Boulton on it? Pffft. That's nothing. I saw Jesus in a Big Mac I AM John Lennon, and he was even better than Jesus...Oh, no, don't get the press going again! I AM Mark Chapman. Don't answer your doorbell, ok? I'd have to sign your album first, and I'm not going to fall for that old stunt again!

Have you read about the ghost of Matthew Boulton on it? Pffft. That's nothing. I saw Jesus in a Big Mac I AM John Lennon, and he was even better than Jesus...Oh, no, don't get the press going again!

Pretty cool, though I'm not sure how comfortable that sofa would be! I just hope they went through all the coins first to pick out any rarities before they trashed them. I somehow think the world will not run dry of washers to utilise. The results are not unattractive. I must admit to only giving the scrap pile a cursory check, mainly for the odd better quality coin. I'm certainly not going to check every washer for rare dates or varieties before they get consigned to the pot, and past experiences on ebay suggest people are reluctant to even pay a quid for 100 meaning they can't be bothered to search either. Saving the planet from un-necessary mining activity is the next best thing. You do make me smile, Rob! I'm just so, so, glad you don't take this whole thing too seriously! I couldn't take you seriously otherwise! :-) As I approach my fourth birthday, I'm thinking of settling down a bit and becoming more responsible. But I will draw the line at checking washers.

Pretty cool, though I'm not sure how comfortable that sofa would be! I just hope they went through all the coins first to pick out any rarities before they trashed them. I somehow think the world will not run dry of washers to utilise. The results are not unattractive. I must admit to only giving the scrap pile a cursory check, mainly for the odd better quality coin. I'm certainly not going to check every washer for rare dates or varieties before they get consigned to the pot, and past experiences on ebay suggest people are reluctant to even pay a quid for 100 meaning they can't be bothered to search either. Saving the planet from un-necessary mining activity is the next best thing. You do make me smile, Rob! I'm just so, so, glad you don't take this whole thing too seriously! I couldn't take you seriously otherwise! :-)

Pretty cool, though I'm not sure how comfortable that sofa would be!

I don't put all my eggs in one basket I still like the pub Talking of which, I'm off right now!

I wish things could have stayed that way: it would have made things a lot easier. I guess it still wouldn't have been easy, as you would then be required to choose between a matt-coloured, uninspiring-looking, Fine, and a weakly-struck UNC, which would likely have that bejewelled look of a lustred coin. Even beneath a deep tone, the full-lustred coin is supremely prettier, and a far nicer coin! Which would you choose, how much more would you pay for that?

I'll give you 50p for it!

Some ripe Stilton before you go to bed, with a Spink as your bedside read. That should do it! Ahhh, that'll be it, I've been drinking a bottle of port every night! Alchy lol. I only have penthouse at the side of my bed and an old sock So THAT's where you store your coin collection! So THAT'S how you get that nice old cabinet tone, you old scallywag!

Welcome aboard, good find re the G3, well done...really glad you're not scrapping everything! As Azda said, a couple of decent books, and a good rummage around on here should help you spot some of the rarities.

Some ripe Stilton before you go to bed, with a Spink as your bedside read. That should do it! Ahhh, that'll be it, I've been drinking a bottle of port every night!

I don't think either, or any, of the books appear to stand alone very well, though the Withers Galata guide would definitely be my first choice, over Wren, North, Etc. I know very little about the early medieval pennies, so cannot really say who's right or wrong from my own personal experience, hence the post! There is a lot of conflicting evidence, particularly at the 3g/class 4 crossover, I think because they share the same crown, and maybe this is unusual in the identification of the types, I just don't know enough about them! I'm feeling a little bias re North, because it's bloody useless for Elizabeth...I'd have a Spink's any day of the week for that, BCW notwithstanding!

Can anyone enlighten me, I'm finding conflicting evidence when using Withers, Wren, and Spink (I left North out of it, as adding the fourth book just blows it completely). The below coin has a Class 3g crown, which is used on 3g and Class 4. - Withers says Large Commas for 4a (rather than the more usual crescents of 3g). - Withers says Cross Potent for classes 1-5(Long Serifs present on 3-5), however, Wren says Cross Pattee for Class 4 - Withers says egg-waisted S for 4a, but Spinks says 'late S always used', which I think mine is (as illustrated in Withers, though North's late S is actually the egg-waited kind). On balance of evidence I think 4a, mostly on account of the obverse comma-wedges and complete crown, which starts to break down from 4b onwards, and also the Spink claim of late S? A lot of conflicting evidence, generally, of which I have only listed some...what's the consensus? Actually I said I wasn't going to involve North, but 3g for them is early or late S (late meaning egg-waisted for them) with varying stops!

That's worked out fine - obviously a recipe for success. Agreed, and it demonstrates how we all have our own little routines that achieve our end!

It's only been 5 days, I'm trying!

White balance raises its ugly head whatever the background. I also use backgrounds that give the lowest failure rates which, for me, involves 2 background colours, dependent on whether the coin is silver, bright bronze, or lustred, etc. I started using that old text background because it was the most effective, colour wise, but it made it difficult to cut the coins out with software afterwards, which I decided to start doing for tonal consistency of backgrounds across the website, recent additions list, etc. So I now use matt black and white for photography. As an indicator, the white background can be anything from blue, green, right through to pink, by the time I've played with the image in a photo suite! I then cut it out in Serif Plus and, hey presto, the background is brilliant white for all my images. That sounds like too much time required if all you want to do is load up a few images of coins for sale. As nice as perfection is, time has a cost. It already takes a few hours to add half a dozen coin images to the site given the vagaries of auto-defocus, flash working or not depending on the levels of light available, camera shake. Needless to say, it acts as a drag on the enthusiasm for listing things. I have to confess that I thought it would be much easier and take less time to take decent pics and upload them than it does in reality. It would be better if these clever cameras (which do everything except make a cup of tea), could adjust the image to give a standard colour. i.e. they know what 6000K white or whatever looks like, and every picture taken should be corrected, or at least correctable to this or these pre-set standards. I can see that you would need more than one reference point to cover absent reference colours. They must have some digital value corresponding to a particular shade of a colour which can have a specific number of bits added to or subtracted from it, or is that an unreasonable presumption? Time is money, it's true, but not as costly as having a stunner of a coin not selling on account of a poor image, so the effort is worth the cause I reckon. In actuality my backdoor route to an uploaded image has developed from not being able to do it properly in the first place. Timewise it's not as bad as it sounds...10 seconds for the shot...open the image in my photo program and adjust colours, tone, saturation, etc. (1min)...open up in Serif and cut it out (1min)...save as JPEG to PC (10 secs) X2 = under 5 mins per finished ob and rev. Photographing coins IS the world's biggest pain in the arse, though! Apart from Boy George, that is!

White balance raises its ugly head whatever the background. I also use backgrounds that give the lowest failure rates which, for me, involves 2 background colours, dependent on whether the coin is silver, bright bronze, or lustred, etc. I started using that old text background because it was the most effective, colour wise, but it made it difficult to cut the coins out with software afterwards, which I decided to start doing for tonal consistency of backgrounds across the website, recent additions list, etc. So I now use matt black and white for photography. As an indicator, the white background can be anything from blue, green, right through to pink, by the time I've played with the image in a photo suite! I then cut it out in Serif Plus and, hey presto, the background is brilliant white for all my images.

Yes, like a hawk, spw!