Coinery

Some ripe Stilton before you go to bed, with a Spink as your bedside read. That should do it! Ahhh, that'll be it, I've been drinking a bottle of port every night!

I don't think either, or any, of the books appear to stand alone very well, though the Withers Galata guide would definitely be my first choice, over Wren, North, Etc. I know very little about the early medieval pennies, so cannot really say who's right or wrong from my own personal experience, hence the post! There is a lot of conflicting evidence, particularly at the 3g/class 4 crossover, I think because they share the same crown, and maybe this is unusual in the identification of the types, I just don't know enough about them! I'm feeling a little bias re North, because it's bloody useless for Elizabeth...I'd have a Spink's any day of the week for that, BCW notwithstanding!

Can anyone enlighten me, I'm finding conflicting evidence when using Withers, Wren, and Spink (I left North out of it, as adding the fourth book just blows it completely). The below coin has a Class 3g crown, which is used on 3g and Class 4. - Withers says Large Commas for 4a (rather than the more usual crescents of 3g). - Withers says Cross Potent for classes 1-5(Long Serifs present on 3-5), however, Wren says Cross Pattee for Class 4 - Withers says egg-waisted S for 4a, but Spinks says 'late S always used', which I think mine is (as illustrated in Withers, though North's late S is actually the egg-waited kind). On balance of evidence I think 4a, mostly on account of the obverse comma-wedges and complete crown, which starts to break down from 4b onwards, and also the Spink claim of late S? A lot of conflicting evidence, generally, of which I have only listed some...what's the consensus? Actually I said I wasn't going to involve North, but 3g for them is early or late S (late meaning egg-waisted for them) with varying stops!

That's worked out fine - obviously a recipe for success. Agreed, and it demonstrates how we all have our own little routines that achieve our end!

It's only been 5 days, I'm trying!

White balance raises its ugly head whatever the background. I also use backgrounds that give the lowest failure rates which, for me, involves 2 background colours, dependent on whether the coin is silver, bright bronze, or lustred, etc. I started using that old text background because it was the most effective, colour wise, but it made it difficult to cut the coins out with software afterwards, which I decided to start doing for tonal consistency of backgrounds across the website, recent additions list, etc. So I now use matt black and white for photography. As an indicator, the white background can be anything from blue, green, right through to pink, by the time I've played with the image in a photo suite! I then cut it out in Serif Plus and, hey presto, the background is brilliant white for all my images. That sounds like too much time required if all you want to do is load up a few images of coins for sale. As nice as perfection is, time has a cost. It already takes a few hours to add half a dozen coin images to the site given the vagaries of auto-defocus, flash working or not depending on the levels of light available, camera shake. Needless to say, it acts as a drag on the enthusiasm for listing things. I have to confess that I thought it would be much easier and take less time to take decent pics and upload them than it does in reality. It would be better if these clever cameras (which do everything except make a cup of tea), could adjust the image to give a standard colour. i.e. they know what 6000K white or whatever looks like, and every picture taken should be corrected, or at least correctable to this or these pre-set standards. I can see that you would need more than one reference point to cover absent reference colours. They must have some digital value corresponding to a particular shade of a colour which can have a specific number of bits added to or subtracted from it, or is that an unreasonable presumption? Time is money, it's true, but not as costly as having a stunner of a coin not selling on account of a poor image, so the effort is worth the cause I reckon. In actuality my backdoor route to an uploaded image has developed from not being able to do it properly in the first place. Timewise it's not as bad as it sounds...10 seconds for the shot...open the image in my photo program and adjust colours, tone, saturation, etc. (1min)...open up in Serif and cut it out (1min)...save as JPEG to PC (10 secs) X2 = under 5 mins per finished ob and rev. Photographing coins IS the world's biggest pain in the arse, though! Apart from Boy George, that is!

White balance raises its ugly head whatever the background. I also use backgrounds that give the lowest failure rates which, for me, involves 2 background colours, dependent on whether the coin is silver, bright bronze, or lustred, etc. I started using that old text background because it was the most effective, colour wise, but it made it difficult to cut the coins out with software afterwards, which I decided to start doing for tonal consistency of backgrounds across the website, recent additions list, etc. So I now use matt black and white for photography. As an indicator, the white background can be anything from blue, green, right through to pink, by the time I've played with the image in a photo suite! I then cut it out in Serif Plus and, hey presto, the background is brilliant white for all my images.

Yes, like a hawk, spw!

My approach is similar to TG's, I take my photo on a background which interferes with the white-balance the least (which is the function we all need to perfect) and then play around with the image in a software program to achieve the closest 'representation' of the coin I can! Sometimes my images are pleasing and are uploaded as-is, though, mostly, I fart ass about for hours and settle for a compromise of contrasty colours that are close. I haven't the mental resources available at this point to understand my setup as an expert would know it...I mostly (always) just bodge my way through as best I can!

D.Post!

Christ, Peter, are you sure? I know he's an arse in the rational communication department when things aren't right ( lost item in my case)! Have to take a look at the archives!

Nothing wrong with your English goomolique!

What's the spelling of the second half of Durham? It's probably going to be class 9 or 10 at a guess? Edit: Sorry, I meant 9, 10, or 11

The only modern fakes of the Edward pennies that I've seen are not really designed to fool at all. In fact they are much better described as copies, being generally at least 3 times as thick, with an obvious seam around the edge, where the two halves have been bonded together...your's is definitely not one of those! Also, the magnet test is pretty worthless for separating out pewter, as it doesn't stick to it, at least is doesn't stick to the pewter coins I have. It's certainly a cross-moline Durham penny, but I'd need to bury my head in the books to tell you more. Which, of course I will if the early hammered gents don't give you the full picture from a quick glance!

The weight is probably all that anyone can judge by, as the images are not really going to help that much. I think everyone collecting coins should make a set of 100th gram scales their first priority. Plus, I know it might not please all, but if I was buying big money gold hammered, I'd probably even be acid testing it too!

Yes, a big welcome aboard, Woodsman. Unfortunately, the subject of authenticity is an all too common discussion on this forum, with many flagging-up eBay coins, and others studying them and bringing their knowledge and discoveries to the table for us all to benefit from. In all fairness, contemporary counterfeits of most hammered coins, are worth nearly as much, if not more so, than worn examples of the equivalent types. Now that's a really good reason to like low-grade coinage Re Fakes, there is generally somebody around with their finger in the pie, so you should get a lot of help for most periods! Just get practicing with a camera, as good images are king on the forum. Happy detecting, a great father and son pastime!

Another staggering image, Nicholas, I hope the coin's your's, as I'm going to be coming to Aus. just to see them all! I see your point, but the orb can let you down a lot on many strikes. I guess the question would be how on earth do you squeeze VF, GVF, NEF, EF, and GEF between Paulus's shilling and your image? I'm going to have to get you to do my shopping in the Autumn! I'm still on GVF myself, though!

That's GVF for me! I'd be really interested in a number of views, as these Cromwell coins, which I think are a stunning series, are meeting with quite some variability! Nice spot, Paulus, I wonder who he's selling that coin for? Edit: possibly even a smidging better than GVF, I really like it. You've always got to mark Uncle Buck's coins down a notch on eye-appeal, as his images always look very 'lustry' and colourful, whereas, in-hand, the story is mostly very different!

Pictures speak a thousand words! Bring it on Peter....... I did wonder just how long it would take for a pennyman to arrive...

Very, VERY, nice, too!

Difficult to contest your view, as no-one can deny you have some absolutely amazing coins, but fine? Crikes you're harsh!

I think you're right, the reverse is a smidging better. Really top condition for grade, though, def GVF money overall I think.

VF for me! Pretty coin, though!

The problem is that any seller who wants a reasonable return has to overprice in order to recoup the ebay charges. When you are losing 15-20% in fees, it has to be recovered by charging more. If sellers still had the option to bypass Paypal, it would be possible to reduce the charges and so lower prices to the buyer. Many of my sales and purchases on eBay have ended up outside of eBay and Paypal, even with my first transaction with a buyer or seller Once a negotiation starts, it becomes immediately obvious that it would be mutually beneficial to cut eBay and PayPal out of the equation (once you have established some trust!). EBay hate it of course, but there are ways and means that are not complicated, and the best thing is it builds you an invaluable network of trusted contacts for repeat business! So I think you may want to experiment with the Bay Rob, see what you think! I used to. I stopped when they made accepting Paypal obligatory. Having previously had a fallout with them which ended up at the ombudsman and me a few hundred pounds richer, it was a decision that I was never going to rescind. eBay's policy of buyer good, seller bad is hardly welcoming, and to ensure you get a fair return, you need to start above £1 which means people ignore the listing. On balance, the hassle of listing for a week or ten days, but not selling because you aren't offering the item on a 99% discount is unattractive. I also find the whole experience very 'seller beware' and slanted towards the buyer. What I am saying has worked well for me is the 'BIN or best offer' listings that quickly migrate to a negotiation and deal outside of eBay and Paypal, and future deals with satisfied/delighted buyers. This can happen on the first deal, and is very common I think! Obviously the buyer and seller don't get the fantastic insurance offered by a regular eBay purchase, but when dealing with proper collectors this has yet to prove to be a problem for me ... might be worth a go for a handful of your hard-to-shift coins? Yes, but then there are the arseholes who bid on coins without any Intention of paying for them as is the case with my 1708 halfcrown. rsskyline from Belfast, registered as a Business seller no less buying everything in sight but Fails to pay for the coin he bidded on. So a wasted week in waiting for payment/wondering if he's going to pay, no email from them, no Response to mine and so onwards to the dipute to wait yet another 4 days. This is the part of ebay that irks me, new ebayer failing to pay yet they let him continue, absolute joke In all fairness, you would be no more protected from people who don't want to pay you, even if running a website! Arseholes are just that, wherever they shop! They probably take clothes back to high street stores after wearing them a few times too, they may even have shoplifted them in the first place!

Keep us posted, I've never heard of anyone actually getting to communicate with a human being at eBay before, will be interesting to see how things are dealt with! Best of luck!