Coinery

I guess, there is also another factor, and that is... What does the acid component of Olive Oil become once any micro-smear on the coin has reacted with the coin's surface, and thus attained a new chemical property? I'm tending towards more towards NO oil for Big-Lustred coins, maybe only using it to 'cheer up' already toned coins, though the jury is still out for me on that one. Although, if VS has reported changes in Olive-Oiled 20th century bronzes, then maybe there's nothing left to debate on the matter!

Another good point! So, what happens chemically when olive oil goes off? Is it a danger to coins at that point? Certainly smells different when very old, so what happens? Also, when I talk about 'flips' in the above, I'm referring to the glued shut 2x2's with the circular plastic windows in them.

Spot on, Declan, I'm from the same mould! Also, as Rob said, it's also about a stab at what you think you can get for a coin because, hobbiest or business man, most of us are hoping to buy something else with the released funds! I actually like Spink's book because I physically can't remember everything about everything I see. However, Spink's takes it's prices from hopefully a lot of different sales, which will have included an infinite amount of coin faults. To clarify the complexity of value, I have a BU 1936 penny which I'm really pleased with and can't conceive of bettering, however, I also have a beautiful, luminous, burgundy-toned '36 which, I couldn't value less! Also, I have three different elizabeth I 3d's, which fall under the same spink number, but one is around 6 x rarer than the others, and would sell well above the spink price guide...that's what you're up against! Enjoy!

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

That's a beautiful coin! A couple of very minor niggles but has that all important aesthetic balance for me, superb piece! If the coin were mine, I'd personally never feel convinced of an inverted A attribution. The 'crossbar' doesn't sit right with me, plus with the cleanness of the edge of the rest of the 'V' is unexpected, particularly when compared to other hammered overstamps and die repairs I've seen. That's not to say this isn't the error that is meant to be an inverted A. Of course, it COULD be one, I just wouldn't be totally convinced myself!

Just to continue what I'm enquiring into elsewhere, do you think there's a greater risk, FULL STOP, when sealing coins in flips, or just when Olive Oil is involved? I'm just thinking out loud here, but I guess Olive Oil has a water content? God, what's the REAL science here, what do the museums do, or are they as bad, or worse?

I simply store them in my mahogany coin cabinet in a dry, warm room. With regard to the possibility of my very high grade coins incurring toning, I figure that if I look after them reasonably well, they should not tone any further, at least not in my lifetime. After all, who knows how they've been kept since, say, 1860. If they've survived since then (152 years) without significant toning, then I'm sure they'll manage a bit longer. I totally agree with this. It's hard to imagine that they've spent 150 years in better storage conditions than I am providing. It's a really good point, but you can have a piece of unpainted copper pipe in a centrally heated house, and it's still brown within a year! I'm not being argumentative here, I'm genuinely desperate to find a long-term solution to holding a BU set of G6 coins in blazing suspension, not to mention the other coins I hold! Is it your opinion that a degreased lustred coin, kept in a dry climate, would not significantly tone in our lifetime? Can I also ask... Would degreased BU coins in 2x2 flips (in a dry atmosphere) fair well? Would degreased AND O-oiled coins be at any disadvantage in the same situation?

It's not a 78 obverse 8, because no obverse 8's were minted at Heaton in 1874. That leaves it as a 7 + H, F73. edit: beaten to it by Accumulator, while I was looking at Freeman's book Oops, my mistake - I forgot about that liddle H. Yet the eye and ribbon appear to be right for Obverse 8? Your grade is not over, pies. It's minimum VF, but many would grade GVF. I always find the eye a difficult one, but the ribbon on obverse 8 is much wider, leaving very little gap between the two loose ribbon ends, Here's Obverse 7 (on the left) and 8 (on the right, or below depending on your screen width Peckris ): That's really really difficult, isn't it? Freeman seems to be wrong about the eye - those are identical. However, the ribbon bow shows very slight difference, but also the rose doesn't encroach below the linear circle on 7 like it does on 8. Just out of interest, what do you big bronze/copper guys (sounds like a porn title for a John movie) do with your coins? Do you degrease? Do you oil? Do you store your copper/bronze in an airtight condition? What are you doing to prevent further toning on your blazing examples?

No, I don't think anyone was put off by the reversal at all, it would have been from the general appearance of the coin that an assessment was made. I don't have an image to hand, but if you type George V half sovereign into google images, you'll see for yourself how one should really look!

Yes, sorry, water bird...I meant the end of it being an exciting discovery for you! It's not a genuine G5 gold coin, which also means it's 90%+ unlikely to even be made of gold! Really sorry, but I would guess few would be interested in it as anything other than a curiosity, and at pennies even for that!

No!

I work in a small care home ... Get you, TG, very impressed! Are you sure you don't live in a caravan?

You can be a nasty piece of work sometimes, Debbie!

Ahh, that'll be the end of that, then, waterbird!

You can only think of ONE downside to working in London!

You don't want the surface wet and gummy with oil! get it (wipe) to a state where dust would blow off the surface, as with any coin! Absorbent tissue sucks it away from the surface quite nicely with a bit of 'tickling'!

That one looks more like nEF. No, that's at least EF. Those 1917s ALWAYS come with weakly struck reverses (have a look at Chris's offerings - he's got a couple up there right now). That could be one reason they are so scarce in high grades - a fully struck up example would be worth a king's ransom. My grading was mostly based on the obverse, where there appears to be significant wear to the eyebrow and the top of the ear and poor definition on the beard and hair. But I wouldn't quibble over a quarter of a grade. I can make out a complete eyebrow, but it certainly isn't better than EF I'd say. On the other hand I always distrust 'blown up' photos as they magnify any little tiny flaws and make them seem like horror stories which they wouldn't in hand. That's a well-known issue - the reverses of George V before 1921/2 are notoriously affected by the high relief of the obverse portrait 'sucking' metal away from the reverse (and causing 'ghosting' too). This is especially true where the reverse rims don't protect the design properly (pennies & halfpennies) or the reverse design is too shallow compared to the obverse (shillings, and to a less extent, sixpences). Where there are strong reverse rims and a strong reverse design - halfcrowns - you don't see the ghosting or weakly struck reverses. Interestingly, the 'recessed ear' 1915/16 pennies usually have Britannia fully struck up, so why the Mint didn't persist with the experiment further is a bit baffling. So did ANY, say 1920 pennies for example, get through unscathed, or would I be wasting my time looking for one?

That one looks more like nEF. No, that's at least EF. Those 1917s ALWAYS come with weakly struck reverses (have a look at Chris's offerings - he's got a couple up there right now). That could be one reason they are so scarce in high grades - a fully struck up example would be worth a king's ransom. And what about the reverses of the 1920 penny, does Britannia's bodice exist anywhere in a well struck-up state?

Think I'd bedder 'ave one then, with all that endorsement!

I've only ever bought spink, but I hear there's a little extra with CCGB, am I missing out on much? For the weekend, Sir? Better make that twooo please!

Here is the Obverse! It's so easy to forget that these coins are nearly 140 year's old when you see one looking like that! I admired the pictures for quite some time! Lovely coin!

I do know a Pat, and can't get that thought out of my head now!

Rightly or wrongly, I only ever wipe/pat(Peter) off as much as I can to make the coin dry in appearance again. I never remove ALL the oil residue with something else, like acetone for example. Copper/brass coins always look beautiful after a wipe of oil, almost conditioned but, I have asked the question on here many times, whether anyone has ever noticed any long-term effects from exposure to Olive Oil. I think I recall Peck saying that he hadn't noticed any changes, in around 80-90 years of observing I think it was (don't quote me on that, it might be longer) Am I going to get hate mail for this, but I routinely acetone and oil my copper coins before sealing them up in 2x2's. I've been doing that for around 4 years and haven't noticed any changes yet.

GVF

Happy birthday chaps! I will get back to you Colin, just wading my way through Tax business, uugh, I'm interested, yes!