Coinery

What shocked me is that it was reported that he didn't have a Facebook page, as if that was a clear indication of a dangerous sociopath. Unbelievable. Absolutely bonkers, and very worrying what constitutes normal! You can hear the deep intake of air in the court room when they announce he didn't EVEN have a Facebook identity! Well, that's it confirmed, he CAN'T be functional, the Police were quite right to speculate he may not be normal after all! I wasn't sure, until they told me!

As others have said, we'd need a look at this coin to offer any opinions. You can link to photos directly by using a photohosting site like flickr or photobucket James. That way you are not restricted by the size limit that applies if you try to upload pics from your computer. Or if the coin is offered by a dealer or auction house, just link to the listing. You should however remember that NGC is an American company. That they have only graded one such coin as PL doesn't necessarily mean that it is rare in this condition or more desirable. US companies generally only get to see a fraction of the number of British coins available. And some of them appear to have little experience in this field upon which to base an opinion. So I suspect that their views will, for UK collectors at least, be much less important than how the coin looks and how individual collectors rate it compared to other examples they have seen. That's what I need, some colour in my avatar!

I'd personally like the term reserved for coins that are perfect from a collectors point of view for type, meaning also that a rich-toned (without blemishes) g3 copper could also be described as FDC, though it's obviously not as it left the mint, on account of its tarnish! I think bag marks should not be majorly present, if at all, separating it from its mint-brethren as a 'lucky' coin and, I guess that's it, it stands separate from all other coins! We know when we've seen them! I once had a toned G5 penny that I felt I could call FDC! I wish I'd kept it! Whether it's an E2 penny, or a James1 shilling, you know what a perfect one can look like! At J1 level, I'd romantically like to think that you might have no more than a dozen FDC examples for a variety and, at the E2 penny end, for it still to prove difficult to find an absolutely perfect coin (even from unopened mint rolls)! IMO Peck, I promise you I was still writing mine when you posted your's!

The 12 days of Christmas it is then! Since Tim's publication, the hammered coppers seem to be a market that is gathering momentum if you consider the number of collectors, but the prices don't seem to have been affected yet. It is quite bizarre because you will struggle to locate pieces at coin fairs (unless you go to Rob's table ). But the steady supply from the Thames seems to be satisfying demand at the moment. I don't know where Spink's get their prices from, we hardly see truck loads of farthings going through the big auctions? When we consistently get a gaggle of individuals all bidding for the better eBay pieces, we're going to see some good prices, but these won't be reflected in Spinks. I do think a catalogue of the quality and usability of Tim's is bound to gather momentum and drive the market! I wonder if we are seeing the beginning of the end of affordable high-grade hammered copper? After all, the Thames finds will slowly begin to dry up (I'm only presuming it's only the new 'affordable' breed of metal detectors that's made this mass of new finds available). These tiny little thins (sounds like an after-eight) are a miracle of nature. To find ANY old copper, especially buried copper (which is sometimes nearly as-struck in the case of the C&J1 farthings), in a condition that's really collectable, is quite a tall order. It amazes me the hammered farthings have stayed off the radar for so long. As Dave said, we really should fill our boots, it aint gonna be possible for very much longer. And as Peck said...'kept should've I mouth my shut!'

I saw that over there. I read about spittal and tinfoil on hammered.(Not to rub) What's a clad coin? Is it something an archaeologist pulls out of the wall of a 20thC house? Very good question, I hope I don't have one! Most of this "tissue test" comes from people in the US who coin-roll hunt, or who don't know if a foreign coin is silver or not. When opening up rolls of half-dollars to search for silver, there are 90% and 40% silver coins and coins that have no silver. When looking at the edges, its easy to tell if a coin is 90% silver or not because a 90% silver half dollar will be solid white. 40% silver coins look similar to coins with no silver in them, although they might look a bit "green". 40% halves were minted from 1965-1970 but there have been reports of some very rare wrong planchet errors dated 1971. The problem is, people flood forums anytime there is a funny looking 1971 edge and claim its a rare error worth $1K+ (I've never seen someone discover a 1971 on a 40% silver planchet despite reading 75 threads+ about it). Since apparently a lot of people in the US don't have a scale to weigh them, people have come up with the "tissue test" to help mitigate the flood of these false threads. Among US coin collectors, a non-silver coin is often called "clad" because US quarters/dimes dated 1965-present (and post-1970 halves) are copper-nickel clad. You can see the cladding on the edge where there will be the white stripe of nickel and the reddish-brown of copper. US collectors will also incorrectly refer to non-silver but non-clad coins (such as 99.9% nickel Canadian coins) as clad, and so in US coin forums clad just means non-silver. Even more confusingly 40% silver half dollars are correctly called silver-clad, but such a coin would not be called "clad" in a US forum. Really, the best test for circulated coins to tell if they are silver is the "sound test" (this is quite useful when rummaging through a dealer's "junk bin") copper-nickel coins will "ping" when dropped while silver will "clank" although the alloy does make a large difference (a sterling coin will sound different than a 40% or 50% silver coin). Of course this test isn't exactly recommended for expensive high grade coins! Forgot to mention, clad on eBay has a different meaning, generally meaning plated in order to deceive buyers with titles like: "1 Troy ounce .999 clad silver bar" which have 1 troy ounce of something like nickel or copper that is plated with pure silver. Wow! Many thanks for taking the trouble to clarify that, a really interesting read! I had absolutely no idea!

I saw that over there. I read about spittal and tinfoil on hammered.(Not to rub) What's a clad coin? Is it something an archaeologist pulls out of the wall of a 20thC house?

The 12 days of Christmas it is then!

'illustration purpose only'? Why? I hate that! With the effort put into the multi-image photo he posted, he could've got a half-decent photo of his ACTUAL coin!

Dave'll be straight into the ovals and CARA pieces! Alas, I was hoping to snipe a few more nice pieces before there was too much competition! ME???? Re-arrange the following words to make a sentence : "bolted" "horse" "after" "it's" "good" "door" "no" "shutting" "stable" "the" "has" "the" :lol: I've come over all strange at the recent interest in hammered farthings. So much so, that I darn got confused about the perpetrators (?spelling) of the gold rush. It wasn't YOUR fault at all Peck (nor mine, ahem), but that dang gourmet Peter and his sidekick, Paulus! Without which, Dave would still be pondering the 127 varieties of sausage he might have with his dinner!

Does anyone really pay for a coin that's titled 'unknown and yellow'? Dave's probably won it with that fancy, zero-feedback, Swiss eBay account he's got!

Oh, FCUK! Now look what you've gone and done Peck! You had to go and tell Dave about it, didn't you! You'll enjoy it, it's the farthing series laid bare and easy!

Tim mentioned his addenda to me previously and as a result I tried to obtain a copy from Galata but alas got no response...would you willing to do me a copy and I will cover your postage costs and a pint? Hi Colin, PM me your address and I'll get the 2010 update over to you. I'll put it in with your Christmas card, so no charge for postage! There's also a 2012 addenda, not yet integrated into the 2010 document, though Galata are due to do this sometime soon. I have this as a word document if you want that one too? Nice compliment earlier in the thread...thank-you!

I've also just ordered a book and a new digital caliper. Does anyone have a copy of Challis 'Tudor Coinage' ? And well done for posting at 12:12, even if it was on the 13th! Ahh, yes, at 12.12 on the 12th month of 2012. I'm a genious I am, an absolute genesis!

Dave'll be straight into the ovals and CARA pieces! Alas, I was hoping to snipe a few more nice pieces before there was too much competition!

Hah, just noticed...happy 2nd birthday, Ski!

reported again!

Does it still have 'no stop after DEI' in S3516? Yes. The items within 3516 are unchanged, albeit the prices a little higher. Thanks, Nick. Doesn't quite tally with an email I had from spink's a couple of months back, but hey ho!

The genuine one has the 180 degree! We'll get it sorted eventually!

I've also just ordered a book and a new digital caliper. Does anyone have a copy of Challis 'Tudor Coinage' ?

What's going on, Paulus, no competition please! Lion RAMPANT Lennox type 4 S2680 [c] I had this one in my watch list as I thought it might be counterfeit...I never had time to sort it out, so it went by! Tim Everson in his latest adenda to his 2007 book has a newly discovered example listed of a Lennox 4 'lion rampant' counterfeit [EXR] Will get the PC out later and have a look! Brilliant, thanks Stuart! I see it in my Spink copy now ... be nice to know if it is counterfeit, half hope that it is! It just caught my eye, glad you weren't bidding too! I like to have a smattering of other examples to go with my milled silver! Alas, it's certainly not a 'known' counterfeit! The counterfeit had missing colon stop after HIB (no space for it apparently)! So, Lennox Type 4 (1622/3-1625) obverse 2, reverse 2 - Everson 48b, BMC (Peck) 103. Importantly, it should have a die axis of 180 degrees. Welcome to the world of hammered copper! A very common type by the looks of it, I'll confirm the die axis when it arrives ... thanks again! Actually, I've just noticed from the images that it IS 180 degrees! Bet you never thought you'd get excited about a coin being a possible counterfeit? For ease of use, and as a great catalogue all round, I can heartily recommend Everson's book...especially if you are going to start scouring the 'bay for the rarities! Not sure if any of the dealers on here have one but, if not, you can get a copy here if you're interested? http://www.galata.co.uk/store.asp?storeAction=showDetail&stockID=1136&stockMasterCategoriesID=8

What's going on, Paulus, no competition please! Lion RAMPANT Lennox type 4 S2680 [c] I had this one in my watch list as I thought it might be counterfeit...I never had time to sort it out, so it went by! Tim Everson in his latest adenda to his 2007 book has a newly discovered example listed of a Lennox 4 'lion rampant' counterfeit [EXR] Will get the PC out later and have a look! Brilliant, thanks Stuart! I see it in my Spink copy now ... be nice to know if it is counterfeit, half hope that it is! It just caught my eye, glad you weren't bidding too! I like to have a smattering of other examples to go with my milled silver! Alas, it's certainly not a 'known' counterfeit! The counterfeit had missing colon stop after HIB (no space for it apparently)! So, Lennox Type 4 (1622/3-1625) obverse 2, reverse 2 - Everson 48b, BMC (Peck) 103. Importantly, it should have a die axis of 180 degrees. Welcome to the world of hammered copper!

What's going on, Paulus, no competition please! Lion RAMPANT Lennox type 4 S2680 [c] I had this one in my watch list as I thought it might be counterfeit...I never had time to sort it out, so it went by! Tim Everson in his latest adenda to his 2007 book has a newly discovered example listed of a Lennox 4 'lion rampant' counterfeit [EXR] Will get the PC out later and have a look!

Let's find out, then! Hope I'm not too late - but that looks like an obvious cast replica. I think you're 99% right, I'll let you know 100% very soon! This would be the first hammered sixpence I've seen, so worth having, if only to mark on my die template, against it's original, that 'crude copies are known to exist of this die'! I will be discussing a partial reimbursement in the likely event of a forgery exposure, or a return with full-reimbursement! After I've got it's vital stats and a nice picture, of course! So, there it is...a 1566 portcullis sixpence of Elizabeth is also 100% on the counterfeit list! I'd prefer to keep it, as long as I can renegotiate a price, otherwise back it goes! Camera's coming out tomorrow, so will put a few pictures up. Nothing to worry about for the hammered boys, this one is not going to catch anyone out! Nowhere near as convincing as the Mary groat. Next coin of interest is that Elizabeth milled sixpence, that one could stir it up a bit, though the obverse on it is a little corroded/pitted!

Does it still have 'no stop after DEI' in S3516?

That will be interesting for Rob (unless he is involved) And when they split the hammered away we will be getting somewhere. As long as they don't sub-divide the hammered section further! We don't want everyone knowing which of the coins within a Spink number cataloging are the rare ones! Heaven forbid!