Coinery

Can anyone help me in my understanding of this penny? I feel loathed to ID it without understanding the crown. Is it a broken crown punch? Repaired crown on die? Or...? It looks to me as if there is some symetry and intention re the two outer fleurs, so I'm leaning towards a die-repaired-crown, type 10 (maybe)? It's giving me a headache, that's for sure. I'm at a bit of a loss to be honest!

You're a hard man, Mr Peter, a hard man!

Also, so people can't actually see what you've been selling AFTER the auction's finished! If you had a nice little idea, say polished coins for 110th birthdays, other potential listers, who might want to poach your idea, can't see how successful you are in selling them. If they spotted you'd sold 20 in one week, they might just think 'Blimey, I'll give that a go myself!' A case in point: about 10 year's ago, I started making driftwood crucifixes for a bit of fun. I was genuinely shocked by their popularity and eBay auction success, making between early twenties to thirty quid a throw! I didn't have the market for long! I've done it myself on eBay, seen a good idea, and then trawled the seller's feedback for the stats!

Not sure about the Tom Sellick moustache though!

Not a clue unless it's a deformed bell. That was my first guess, but very odd to say the least! I thought is could be a modern copy, but it's not known by Everson? So, it turns out to be a Maltravers (Type 2) Bell 'Counterfeit' farthing, which is confirmed as another die of CMBe-Be002 (die 2) on Ivan Butterworth's website http://www.hammered-farthings.com (see bottom image for comparisons) - thank-you very much to him for all his help and assistance in this matter.

That's pretty shit, Dave, I'd be furious at ANY auction house that tried to pass that onto a distant-buying client! I agree not every detail can be described, but glaring issues, that they know would make it undesirable, like a bloody great hole through the middle etc, should be noted in bold! Best of luck with turning them over!

Looks like one for TomGoodHeart. And there was me thinking I was about to break TWO predecimal records in one hit...the 0 reply post, and the longest conversation ever held with oneself in the Mary Fake! You've blown it now, peterkin

Just an update! The 'die-match' coin has arrived, it tests positive for high-grade silver, so it'll not be an easy matter of just condeming an entire die type. However, ahead of my little die-study of the Mary pomegranate groats, there is evidence enough to suggest caution when buying a coin of this die match.

Has anyone ever heard of or seen a fake Mary Groat? Could I please have your considered opinions please! The seller says he found this Metal Detecting, and has been a dealer for 30 years with his own shop, and apparently has great experience in this field, and has also shown this to a 'top dealer'. He's invited me to take it to Spinks or DNW to authenticate. It has all the complex Mary buckles, but is lighter than it should be at 1.64g. It is your typical hammered thin, making me rationalize it is neither a cast nor electrotype, though I'm open to all thoughts good or bad. I personally am uncomfortable with it, what do you think of the general quality of the design?

Has anyone seen, can link me to, or know anything about, the modern 'POSUI reverse' fakes mentioned in North? Obviously a very different animal to what we are currently looking at here, but would be good to get one up here anyway!

Many happy returns, John!

When you say 'blundered,' do you mean stolen? Was this really a common thing, given that the dies would still be capable of producing 'legal' tender right up to the recoinage in W3? I'm also just wondering about the production of dies, using a currency coin. I'm guessing that devices on a newly created fake die would be, if anything, exact or larger? Whereas a stolen set of dies (maybe even a 100 year's old by then) could potentially have corroded (and the rust would've swollen) and create devices that are frailer and smaller in appearance? Any thoughts? And just for the record, the reverse dies are also a perfect match!

I'm trying to find room 2 on The Saleroom, does anyone have a link? I can find room 1 on there easy enough, but the hammered from room 2?????

£220 + comm. on the groat. I THOUGHT I'd won 5! Just checked and it's 4! I thought the bid was mine! So, if I repeatedly clicked the bid button at the time of the auction, just to make sure it was mine (which I thought it was), would it up my own bid, or does it just ignore it? The first 2 lots on saturday that I won, never put any of the red writing up to say I was bidding/winning etc, but fortunately I was. Not sure what happened to the 1 in 3 from today?

5 but nothing for me, where were the quality C1 farthings and E1 coins? I had a little go at the Mary Groat and some of the E7 pieces, but that just wasn't happening.

Postage is listed on the invoice. Brilliant, thanks Nick!

Thanks, chaps! Just another question, do they suggest a shipping cost in the invoice, or do you have to ring them for this anyway?

I'll just empty the sawdust out of me wellies and I'll be right there! Better make the showdown in Stroud then, cowboy, we can fight it out over their dozen or so coin lots! 50ml of petrol each...may the best man win! I'm only comin' with 18" and rawhide so make it a clean fight! No scratchin' or pullin' hair, Declan, or I'll tell Peck!

Lockdales will invoice you Stuart and the 3% admin will be included. Theyu are usually pretty sharp. Thanks, John! Is that by post or email? You know why I ask!

So, is it a telephone call to lockdales to make payment and arrange postage, or do they email you? Do lockdales take The Saleroom fee, or is that done separately? What do you guys do?

Something I especially like about this transparency software, is the rather pleasing effect of combining the strong points of two coins - merged together they produce an eye-appealling coin, if only the bottom coin existed! The bottom overlaid image has, for example, all the beading across the front of the dress, a chain is now present on the necklace, the ear's complete, a top bar now exists on the A in Maria, etc, etc, etc!

absolutely. An afternoon, a chainsaw and a few vanloads. Woodshed work tomorrow for me... Good on ya Declan! We still carry a NICE chainsaw in the boot of the car (chain hand-sharpened [properly]), ready for the return of the days! Soon to be upon us! Wood burner at both ends of a 70 ft steel tube!

OK, so the proposed genuine coin above is now mine, solely for the purpose of determining its silver content, and resolving the first of the questions about the original counterfeit's origins, I hope! So, if anyone wants the die-match (following a positive silver test) it's for sale at £88 or greater?

Before going veggie I worked ferrets, lurchers, shot, trapped, fished, AND also Night Hawked with Harris'! I presume you're talking about a different thing?

First Die-match for the counterfeit! I noticed one major thing that stands out is the broken lion punch on the reverse shield (It looks like the Spink's 2012 plate coin also has the broken lion punch, but is a different die [that would've been a noteworthy discovery, to say the least ]), which is missing one of its rear legs, so I started looking around for the broken lions and found my first match. The obverse images below are (apologies, I overdid the resize): Top - Counterfeit coin with 15 key markers (I could've done more, but I don't think it would've made the case any stronger). Middle - Recently discovered die-match, with the same 15 markers. Bottom - The two images overlaid with transparency. I've also added the two reverses for comparison. I haven't 'tested' them together, but I'm thinking they will fit together rather nicely. So, believing the die-match coin to be a genuine example - and it certainly looks a million dollars more so than the counterfeit - what's going on? I'm presuming a counterfeit set of dies were produced from an original coin, and superbly convincing pewter/tin copies were produced en mass! ANY THOUGHTS either way, please!!!!!! BEWARE THE LEGLESS LION! I'm going to see how many groat dies I can find out there (anyone for a speculatory guess, given her short reign, and imminent marriage to Philip?), and set it up in the same fashion as the Liz dies, making a special feature of the obverse and reverse die to watch out for! I also forgot to mention that an obvious stand-out obverse detail is seen at the central cross (not the top cross) in the crown, which has the crisp infill between the branches. If anyone knows the name of that particular cross and/or the name for the individual 'triangle-branches' of it, I'd very much appreciate that information too.