Coinery

Die cracks are very common in the bun series, especially the early ones. A pretty good tool for spotting rarities from poor eBay photos though, I'd think? Get the year and one or two die cracks in the right place, and you could be home and dry? Could be a new eBay help guide (c'mon Scott, it was your thinking!), take a year, and any known die cracks associated with the rare varieties or pairings, and draw the map! You might be able to pick out a die flaw ahead of the microscopic differences we sometimes see in these coins...especially given the appalling images we mostly see on eBay!

Isn't there just the smallest bit of pleasure in reading about and researching a coin you're especially desiring? As an example I've already offered, if you were to think of buying a 'problem' shilling of G3 to add to your proud collection of early 19C silver, wouldn't a huge part of the pleasure in achieving that be your new learnings on the counterfeit's of G3? It's all out there! If I really wanted a gothic crown, the research into what's not a gothic crown, would be as much of the pleasure as knowing what is! Not to mention Peter's got a kitten ripe and ready to spray his Christmas tree next week!

Sideways N though, isn't it? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but I haven't got the books to hand! Really clear though, unlike so many of the 19C varieties!

A Sherlock approach to spotting rarities, I like it!

That would be a very disappointing AU if it landed on your doorstep! Unbelievable!

I'm nothing like that at all!

Are these new purchases, Patrick? A great spread, should involve just about everyone!

I can't remember if it was Rob or Clive that was a Talisker lad. You'll have to get a bottle in Peter, I'm afraid!

Can't wait...the fruit bowls are full of small citrus fruits,the nuts are in supply and a huge capon has been ordered. My Xmas list includes a bottle of Glenmoray and a few good Cubans.Father Xmas still gets a couple of sausage rolls and a large Malt on Xmas Eve and my girls are 15 & 17.Mother stays over and does the veg.I cook the chicken/capon...we don't bother with pud (the starter is sherry and smoked fish)a great day.My eldest has just turned up with a new kitten who I'm sure will climb on or pee on the tree. Here comes my 19th nervous breakdown. Nut roast is currently being coordinated! AND Father Christmas drinks Talisker! For goodness sake, Peter, didn't you know that?

Yes, with Peter on this one, and no doubt everyone else! It's my own thought that just about every detail, including the ethics, of slabbing are now fully understood, by all of those who are in favour, and by all of those who are against (not forgetting those inbetween, of course). All that's left at the end of the day is personal preference and, anything beyond that, is just about frustration at not being understood. I'm personally in favour of coin-talk and, I'm so very happy to say, is what happens on this the finest forum out there...excepting my one-to-one conversation on FAKE Mary Groat that is ! Merry Christmas, chaps...it's door number 1 on the advent calendar this Saturday!

poor resizing again, sorry!

I'm feeling fairly certain that this is another contemporary hammered counterfeit, but would love comments. If it weren't for the positive silver test I'd be certain...did the pre-recoinage bods ever silver plate? Anyone know, or have examples? Of course, the recent Mary groat wasn't plated, so would you plate a threehalfpence? This is a BCW Threehalfpence CN1:c weighing very light at 0.54g. It's hammered-style thin (very thin) and doesn't really draw any attention to itself except at magnification where, to me, it looks 'wrong' and plated, possibly? It tests positive for silver, suggesting that either it IS silver throughout, or that it's plated as suggested??? The silver-test I use does turn the tiniest silver filing into an instant blood-red, so it's very sensitive to high-grade material (plating included). My nagging doubt here is that it's such a small denomination coin. Why would you trouble yourself with a threehalfpence, when there were bigger fish to fry? Maybe the dim light of Tudor England made the smaller denominations a better bet, who knows? So, if 'I' had a coin like this in my collection, I wouldn't be happy with it as 'genuine,' any thoughts? I'm really going to say, in the absence of a greater study of this type and date, that the jury's OUT with me, though I'm on the side of 80% guilty as charged!

Thanks for that, peterkin! I'm so pleased to have traversed the greatest obstacle re the whole project, namely, contact with the men themselves! A direct line to BCW is a huge privilege!

Hi all, I'd like to run the following text past you all, and ask for any insights, better processes, etc. etc! It's most certainly a work without end, more a labour of love, really, enriching my interest in the coins I already hold, or coins I see and admire and wish I could hold! I never thought I'd attempt anything like this, it's developed out of the search to verify my own possible 1578/7/6 sixpence. If I may, I'd like to use this thread throughout the process for all those questions of mine that will inevitably arise, and hope that some of you might help me out with some of the answers! Anyway, I think the following text and images are are reasonably self-explanatory, and an introduction to the basic website idea... Forward Firstly, if I might clearly state, this is not a research work, as it is neither rigorous, nor focused upon the discovery of anything new. Neither is it intended to be a new catalogue of micro-varieties, as all the vagarities of hammered coinage would make for an unenviable, if not impossible task. It is however quite simply a series of die observations designed to assist fellow collectors, who are interested in classifying their coins according to Brown, Comber & Wilkinson’s monumental work ‘The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I’ (Brown et al. 2009). A significant number of superb-quality coins currently escape the net of full BCW provenance, on account of ‘inconvenient’ weaknesses in the region of a key-identifier. Resolution can then only be found in die-matching, and this is the focus of this work and the following images. This is of course a work without end, which lends itself well to the regular updates of a web-based platform, notwithstanding the fact that a book full of thousands of high-resolution images would be unviable. For those who trouble to make use of the following pages, it is expected, for a considerable number of years to come, that dies will commonly be unrepresented, and better examples will become available. Should this be the case, I would very much appreciate copies of your images for inclusion into the catalogue. Method Rather than clarify every oddity of a particular die, it was thought better to gather a core sample of ten or more (where possible) different examples of type, and then identify the more determining irregularities. These were either unique to the die, at least within the preliminary sample, or were at least a less common feature. Any identifiers with potential for confusion, or those that were closely replicated on other dies, have been avoided where possible, but highlighted in red for secondary reference. Similarly, where dies share a number of ‘similar’ irregularities, with few decisive differences, footnotes are added for further clarification. It is hoped at some point that statistical analysis can be applied to the process, and a more scientific approach used overall. However, in the meantime, be patient with me and enjoy the process. Brown, I.D., Comber, C.H., Wilkinson, W. (2009) The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I. [2009 update] Llanfyllin: Galata Print Ltd. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx BCW ‘A’ Shilling Reverse (30th November 1583 – 13th February 1585) BCW’s ‘A’ shilling reverse types, numbering just two, are easily distinguished by the presence, or not, of an over-mark. Though much less common, XX dies are thought to exist with an ‘A’ over ‘Bell’. It is assumed from the outset that, unless the interest is in micro-varieties, attempts are being made here to classify a shilling with inconclusive privy mark detail. Accordingly, the following descriptors noted on the reverse ‘A’ dies, do not involve the privy mark itself. Reverse Dies of BCW's A-b Shilling

RARE???? Alarm bells! Filled dates and disguised in the easiest way possible!

I was too, until our little fall-out over postage! Her/his loss as, as I said in a previous thread, I had bought and bid-up many, many, coins of their's that would have sold for considerably less otherwise! I was worth £1000's to them, even as a non-winning bidder! I must have spent a K or two with them as well! I still don't think it's right to try and charge SD rates for two items you bought at Signed-For rates! Send them individually to me if you want, not charge me extra for putting them in the same envelope and saying they are now over the £46 bracket! Still gets to me

I bought 40 of the buggers and sold 1 to Declan. What is a Groom 1 and 2.I have a few others kicking about(about 40) and need to check these.My grandfather gave me a load of 1946 & 49 3d's from change.As a 10 year old lad I decided to corner the market.I got to about 40 before realising every single one minted was stashed in collectors hands so they weren't rare. worth about £5. I remember a few years back when the 1959S shilling suddenly went from less than £20 in BU to £75! I wondered if that was a misprint - anyone know if the 2012 Spink has brought it back down to realistic levels? The Scottish variant is now £90 UNC

I'm definitely on the fence when it comes to slabs! I've got around a dozen, and have only broke out about 4 ever. I like handling coins, and preparing my OWN tickets for them, with information I want on them, and could never imagine slabbing hammered silver or gold. However, that all said, I do hate the vulnerability of a mint-lustred valuable copper and, to all intents and purposes, would end up locking it away for its own protection anyway. So I do sometimes wonder about the freedom gained from ham-fistedly grabbing your favourite mint coppers for a good look on a regular basis! Another negative for the slabbers, and something that always plays on my mind, is how long will that magnificent lustre hold out in the slab? Were the experts as considerate with their handling as they might have been? How many people properly degrease their coins before sending them for slabbing? I always wonder about how many acidic fingerprints are locked away with a slabbed coin? If the greater argument is about protecting/handling the coins, then you could always buy empty slab cases? A quick search finds them in the US at around $2 a throw! Strangely, I can enjoy aspects of both slabbed AND raw coins, guess I'm just weird!

anybody bought one? Not yet, but if i do i'll send it to PCGS for grading XXX unclean, with fine details!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENGLAND-Elizabeth-I-scarce-hammer-struck-1569-silver-6-Pence-VG-/190755987580?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item2c69f1607c Threepence, surely?

I've only just got that!

I've just received the best news this evening from Chris Comber of BCW fame! I have the kind permission of the three gentlemen to 'use and quote BCW in my [your] published resource.' How fantastic an endorsement is that? I'm totally made up about it! They have also recently submitted updates to Galata in preparation for the 2nd edition of their book, and continue to seek out new discoveries and welcome any new findings. So, one small step for...

Proving something is not authentic is almost as diffficult as proving it is genuine, so the TPGs are not really staking much with that guarentee. Let's face it - you wouldn't have bought the coin in the first place if you thought it was fake! Excellent point! I never EVER managed to convince the owner of the Mary groat that it was not genuine! Every fact I offered, he countered...only Spink's top man, or Tony Robinson live on TV, would have convinced him otherwise!

How did this project work out DaveG38? Both published! To avoid bias, and I couldn't find them for sale on Chris's site, just type 'David Groom Coin' into google and you'll find them!

Can anyone help me in my understanding of this penny? I feel loathed to ID it without understanding the crown. Is it a broken crown punch? Repaired crown on die? Or...? It looks to me as if there is some symetry and intention re the two outer fleurs, so I'm leaning towards a die-repaired-crown, type 10 (maybe)? It's giving me a headache, that's for sure. I'm at a bit of a loss to be honest!