Coinery

Do you have viber for the iphone Stuart? Freecalls to anyone and anywhere in the world if they also have it installed (like moi) also another good wee app is Touch (sounds all pornographic now) viber and touch lol Anyhoo Touch is like a free messenger and you can send small files/pics/sms/video etc to another touch user worldwide free of charge. 1926 GVF for me, wear to the Lions tail and nose as was poointed out. OBV being better then the REV Noooo, none of the techi stuff on mine, bit of a ludite really, though I'm amazed at what you can get nowadays (I barely speak to anyone, so not sure what I would do with all that free technology )! I spotted the flattened end on the tail (even on the phone), but still couldn't bring myself to pull it back to less than NEF because of the globe, paws, etc...it really is borderline for me though. On balance I wouldn't be that unhappy if it came to me blind as a NEF!

An iPhone overall NEF from me!

I've always admired the cut-outs for their technical merit, I think this one's superb! They must sit very nicely amongst the inscribed vagabonds, sorry, variants! Another great dimension!

You'd have to have a major expansion of bandwidth on your website if they did! I did hear the mint did something similar for copper! If i remember rightly, didn't they reduce the curvature of a single denticle by a degree for each die?

Thanks for the elucidation, Dave! I do agree there is a wide 'grey' area between variety and micro-variety which is nicely served by the middling term minor-variety! Can I just ask your own thoughts on the individual hammered dies, which all display clear legend differences (letter rotations, significant gaps, alignments etc), how would you describe them? I'm not sure if you're familiar with the work of BCW, but they have broken up the types into varieties using privy marks, busts, and the punches used for the major components (roses, LIS, lions, etc.), as well as major legend differences (HI/HIB, FR/FRA etc)! Do you think the next stage, moving into die identification, where there are still very clear differences seen easily with the naked eye, crosses into the 'minor' area, or are they a further extension of the major varieties? This could potentially extend the sixpence series into a thousand+ from what I'm seeing? Each would be clearly distinctive in hand, any thoughts?

Just cracked my Tesco's-own sunglasses!

That explains the reverse but i see no signs of that on the obverse.the bust and legends are bigger than another sixpence i have If your proposal is that this could be a shilling obverse, sixpence reverse, then the flan would either have to be extremely thin, if it's spread to the dimensions of a shilling, or it's actually a shilling flan, given that the obverse sits on it about right! So, what's the weight?

heres a pic of the obverse What weight have you got?

Here, here! Top result, Dave, definitely adds value I'd say. However, I'm also with you Ski on the toning issue. Whilst it may add sterling value to D's HC because it will now appeal to a wider market, I have to say I could very well live with both the pre AND post dip coin. It would very much depend on the general tonal trend of the collection it was going to sit within, I guess?

I've had some REALLY mixed results with acetone! I've previously stripped off what was a lovely golden tone over a nice lustred 20c XII, turned a reasonable silver hammered a strange yellowish colour, and gave an unnatural tone to an E7 farthing. I do still use it on really grubby coins, but I'm much more cautious with it nowadays! Will trial some of this dip, though, I've got a few 1887's in the sacrificial hold!

I can't not (double neg.) say thank-you for putting that effort in Richard so, truly, many thanks! Two days ago I would have thought it a simple numismatic formality, drawing the line between varieties and micro-varieties, naively believing the criterion to be extremely well defined! I'm amazed to find out how wide the grey band actually is, and of how much interest it really is to collectors generally! Another enlightening thread for me! Thanks to all, once again!

Ahh, now you say that, but out of around 20 coins I've bought recently, either because they were unusual or pretty, two of them are not in BCW. One is an un-noted die-pairing, and the other an un-noted legend feature! Small stuff, I know, but with an estimated (mine) 1000+ dies for the sixpences alone, there must be plenty up for grabs! I don't think many out there would care a toss about it, really, or pay any more for one, on account it would be a Very VERY long time before any collector got close to having only a few holes in their Elizabeth sixpence collection, and anywhere near thinking about paying a premium to fill it! I might just work backwards and collect the uncollected, now there's a challenge! Yes, I wasn't actually including hammered in my definition, as each coin is almost a micro-variety in itself! And that takes it back full-circle to whether they're micro or not? With clearly defined differences, which are so very different from another of the same type, I couldn't decide whether that made it a variety or a micro-variety! I guess the comparison is, if there was a 20 degree rotated E on a 1918 penny, would that be a 'variety' or a 'micro-variety'? It's quite a subject, and had me scratching my head for a couple of days now! No wonder I'm all but gone on top!

Ahh, now you say that, but out of around 20 coins I've bought recently, either because they were unusual or pretty, two of them are not in BCW. One is an un-noted die-pairing, and the other an un-noted legend feature! Small stuff, I know, but with an estimated (mine) 1000+ dies for the sixpences alone, there must be plenty up for grabs! I don't think many out there would care a toss about it, really, or pay any more for one, on account it would be a Very VERY long time before any collector got close to having only a few holes in their Elizabeth sixpence collection, and anywhere near thinking about paying a premium to fill it! I might just work backwards and collect the uncollected, now there's a challenge!

Thanks, Peter! I guess though, that a 'clear' variety is a variety, whether it's been published or not! I think it's perfectly reasonable to collect unpublished varieties! Any serious collector would acknowledge them as such, whether it was published or not, wouldn't they? I suppose on a commercial basis it might be harder to get comparable money for it until it's catalogued, the rarity of it could be a tough one until it's published, giving the collector base an opportunity to discover they've got 50 of them already!

Thanks for that Rob! Can I just draw you on the above? Would you say all the BCW classifications were varieties, even though the humble sixpence would run into many 100's when using the LIS, lion, rose, leaf, bust, criteria etc. and the many die-pairings? I presume from what you are saying, that an ELZBETH or FR/FRA coin would fit the requirement of a variety? However, bearing in mind the clear differences in legend configuration (spacings, letter rotations, sizes etc) of hammered coins, compared to modern milled coinage, would these still be considered varieties, or are we moving into the realms of micro there? The sixpence dies could be heading a 1000 + at that level of classification, though they are clear to see without the aid of a micrometer! You can see how I've tied myself up in knots with this one!

Could be interesting but, as always, close-ups with better images are needed, especially with a coin that's low-grade. Could be a 'T' ?TERITVS or any of a number of possibilities. There appears to be a second leg (?shadow) where the 'T' (as in fourth letter) should be, suggesting other potential rotational variables. You're going to have to start experimenting with the macro settings on your compact. firstly thanks for all input.ive taken another scan and lightened it as much as i can.also scanned it from a different angle.to me it now looks like an I over T I see the underlying right hand leg of a V to the right of the I? No, it's just a straight TIVS. the L or T is more visible on the coin itself than the pictures portray.whats the next step can i send the coin to someone to look at and if so who,or would you just forget about it. I'd happily photograph it and put the exploded images up here for others to see? I'd be surprised if a final judgement couldn't be made then. Just a suggestion (insured postage each way - paid by you, of course )!

Yes, probably best to try a gentler remedy first - if you dip a piece like that, it should be for only 10 seconds max. I'd add '03-'04 and '08-'09 shillings to that list, though the latter should be minimum EF. I know you've told me a million times, but what dip do you use? I seem to remember it being nothing special, just something from the local hardware store?

Oh, please, how do you do that? 'Timeline Originals' out you go! Do your normal search, then find "Seller" down the left hand side. Hit "Specify Sellers", then in the box that pops up, choose "Only show items from", "Exclude", and paste your blacklist in the little box that doesn't look like it has enough room for it. Do the list in a text file first, and separate the names with a comma, but no spaces (you're limited by number of characters, and spaces count). Don't forget you can rid yourself of an awful lot of crap with judicious use of wildcards in the initial search box too - here's mine: -1967 -197* -198* -199* -200* -201* -olym* -"Isle of Man" -framed -holed -enam* -polish* -token -damag* -empty -india -gibr* -decimal -proof -pattern -mother -wedd* -churchi* -£5 -£2 -£1 -diana -sover* -gold -keyr* -aldern* -jers* -guern* -1p -20p -50p -commem* -cuffl* -millen* Then save your search using the link at the top. Be aware though, that eBay, bless 'em, have a technical fault at the moment with advanced searches, and if your results only show gallery pictures for the first 11 items, you've fallen foul of it. They are working on it, they assure me. It's something to do with the complexity of the query - the more complex it is, the more likely you'll have the problem. Mine, predictably, is horrendously complex because I try to filter out 75% of all the British Coins on there, if I can. Used to work fine - it's only in the last week or so that their problems have occurred. Bloody 'ell, that's just saved me around 8-10hrs a week! Many thanks for that, you'll get your reward in heaven (or an auction house)!

Could be interesting but, as always, close-ups with better images are needed, especially with a coin that's low-grade. Could be a 'T' ?TERITVS or any of a number of possibilities. There appears to be a second leg (?shadow) where the 'T' (as in fourth letter) should be, suggesting other potential rotational variables. You're going to have to start experimenting with the macro settings on your compact. firstly thanks for all input.ive taken another scan and lightened it as much as i can.also scanned it from a different angle.to me it now looks like an I over T looking at the serifs on the previous 'T' it's more likely a 'T' than an 'L'! However, I can just about 'imagine' an 'I' if I really try, especially when I factor in the possible flattening of the top of the 'I', and note the right hand serif is not clear, and look at the corrosion pit at the left hand serif, so not conclusive without a really good close-up! Possibly a 'T' though...TERTTVS, different!

It's great ain't it! You've gotta luv the 'bay!

Oh, please, how do you do that? 'Timeline Originals' out you go!

Well, I haven't seen any with double striking. But then, there are few enough examples around so there may be some, or it may be less than perfect ones were disposed of. Even those that 'escaped' and have signs of having circulated are generally well struck despite the wear. I can see Peck's point, the coins could for example have been specially made using a screw press rather than being hammered. But it would be difficult to be certain, without documentary evidence to back up the idea. As to the 'best examples' of regular coins, I don't think so. They look like they were struck from special dies, for example the coin here. Currency issue coins do occur with the bell mint mark, however I've never seen one with the reverse garniture breaking the legend like this. Other fine work pieces such as the C3/5 shilling have yet to be found as a currency piece. And lastly, all bar one fine work shilling are struck with the first mint mark for a new design, suggesting they are trials, or similar. If the best early coins were picked out I'd expect to see later mint marks too. Pretty compelling evidence I'd say.

Could be interesting but, as always, close-ups with better images are needed, especially with a coin that's low-grade. Could be a 'T' ?TERITVS or any of a number of possibilities. There appears to be a second leg (?shadow) where the 'T' (as in fourth letter) should be, suggesting other potential rotational variables. You're going to have to start experimenting with the macro settings on your compact.

Could I ask opinions on this coin re its class/pedigree and grade? 310428456958 (again a proper link would be appreciated)!