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Everything posted by Coinery
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His 'bottom' was probably too (Christ, just had to edit and add an O to the to ) wide to fit inline on the screen, you can be so insensitive at times, Peck! Are you Dave in disguise??? That's me! Oche, Nooooooooo!
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His 'bottom' was probably too (Christ, just had to edit and add an O to the to ) wide to fit inline on the screen, you can be so insensitive at times, Peck!
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Problem Coins
Coinery replied to coinmerchant's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
its a lesson learnt for sure, but now with that knowledge, your better placed to bid in any future auction. dont dismiss auctions on the basis of 1 bad experience, by bidding on individual coins rather than bulk lots, you may fare better. ive never bought a bulk lot, ive had reasonable success with my bids on individual coins, i have returned 1 coin (in many lots)as i thought it wasnt of the grade the listing suggested and was given a full refund. maybe ask some help here on a piece and take another punt. ski I have bought some great bulk lots from W&W but I suppose it depends how you define the term - one was a collection of pennies from 1860 to 1967 many in high grade (buns average VF, though the only rarity was 1869 in Fair), an incomplete collection of halfcrowns from 1874 to 1967 many in high grade, and a collection of coins in flips in two coindex trays, some of which went into my own collection e.g. an EF 1797 penny. The point I'm making is that all three lots were obtained at considerably less than the total book price for the individual coins. On the other hand, if by 'bulk' you mean accumulations mostly in bags, then you do have to be careful. If there are one or two coins among them that you want, you're better advised to work out what you want to pay for those, and then add on top an amount for any bullion value, or if no silver then a notional amount to cover the remainder of the lot. If your bid fails, you can always note who wins it and approach them afterwards explaining you wanted a particular coin(s) and asking if they would sell to you. A genuine dealer might be perfectly willing to horse trade on that basis, and you can't lose anything by asking. I once missed a superb collection of farthings from 1860, all in minimum EF many UNC, but I'd also noticed that the 1915 was the rare one. So I found out who won it and left my phone number for them to call me. When I said I was only interested in the 1915, the dealer didn't know (or care) that it was a rare variety and I got it without any problem. Good tip re approaching winning bidders of lots - I'd been writing lost lots off as a bad cause! This happened to me at the last W&W, I was bidding on a couple of lots for specific coins I'd spotted in them...never occurred to me to hand a quick note to the winning bidder! -
Don't forget, the shilling suffers from the same syndrome as pennies; those often show Britannia with barely any facial or breastplate details. With shillings it's the lion face e.g. nose. This has nothing to do with what's conventionally called a 'weak' strike (which would show an overall weakness), nor a worn die. It's entirely due to the fact that first series George V coins have a very deep portrait, very high relief, much more so than any other monarch in the milled era. Where the reverse is strong and detailed as with halfcrowns, this doesn't really affect things, but where the reverse has a shallow design and rims - as is the case especially with pennies, halfpennies, and shillings - the obverse 'sucks' metal from areas of the reverse and they don't fully strike up. Would this affect all the coins of a given year? If not, what sort of percentage are we talking about? I'm presuming, if the percentage of sharp strikes is small, that a GEF fully struck up would attract a higher premium than a weak UNC? Difficult question. In the case of pennies, it's rare indeed to see a fully struck up Britannia before 1921/22. And yes, it would affect if not all, then certainly the vast majority of strikes. It's worth noting that on the 'recessed ear' pennies of 1915/16, Britannia is usually fully struck up, indicating that the Mint were aware of the problem ('ghosting' was the main effect they wanted to eliminate) and tried experimenting. Would a fully struck up Britannia command a premium? Very hard to say. It might, for example, go along with a not fully struck up portrait with weak hair detail which would actually be more noticeable and have a negative effect on value. Some dates are notoriously bad - the reverses of 1917 sixpences are a case in point - and a good example would almost certainly attract more buyers. In general, eye appeal counts for a lot, so in any reign a sharp and attractive GEF would nearly always score over a weak UNC. It's also a factor that collectors get so used to a feature - e.g. a not fully struck up Britannia on Series 1 Geo V pennies - that they expect it, and it therefore doesn't affect the value. If only we could 'save' favourite threads on this forum! Thanks, peck!
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Only 2 widths for 1898, but two different fonts for final 8 The variation just goes on and on for these coins, I often wonder how big a work it would be to finally get to the bottom of it? You've obviously got a significant collection, I think you, accumulator, and Declan should get together with numisdan and get the work done!
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Don't forget, the shilling suffers from the same syndrome as pennies; those often show Britannia with barely any facial or breastplate details. With shillings it's the lion face e.g. nose. This has nothing to do with what's conventionally called a 'weak' strike (which would show an overall weakness), nor a worn die. It's entirely due to the fact that first series George V coins have a very deep portrait, very high relief, much more so than any other monarch in the milled era. Where the reverse is strong and detailed as with halfcrowns, this doesn't really affect things, but where the reverse has a shallow design and rims - as is the case especially with pennies, halfpennies, and shillings - the obverse 'sucks' metal from areas of the reverse and they don't fully strike up. Would this affect all the coins of a given year? If not, what sort of percentage are we talking about? I'm presuming, if the percentage of sharp strikes is small, that a GEF fully struck up would attract a higher premium than a weak UNC?
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The bottom one is a manky scan, Coinery - do you think it'll work? Let's give it a go, nothing to loose if you're up for it? Just PMing you now!
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If you exchange the word "f***ed" for "fine", then he is spot on! I was only sad to find a reverse image wasn't uploaded so I could see the "Greek shield nestling to her left" for myself! Saved himself 12p on an already wasted listing I suppose.
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Do you have a link to your particular crowns on their site? That would save me a bit of legwork, especially as I don't normally use the CGS website, being a "non-slabber". Actually, a link to the most prooflike of your crowns would do. I just went there anyway, and you can't browse or search without being registered. What kind of cockamamie service is that? Most websites let you browse quite happily without registering first, only insisting on registration if you want to post comments or in their forums. I won't bother going back. I hate registering for a site and inventing yet another username and password, just to look. Pathetic. Rant over. Talking of rants, I'm forever banging on about the quality of TPGC's imagery, and CGS are as bad as the rest for that kind of thing (at least with the 20 or so coins I've had/got of their's) so I'm not that sure, with proof/proof-like qualities being the hardest thing to capture on pixels, that you'd get a great deal from seeing them, at least in the detail you'd be wanting to see them in to make a judgement? I'll have a look for you, they let me past the gate Divemaster, I don't suppose you've got any quality pre-slab pictures you could post?
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Well, you're certainly amongst friends here if it's knowledge you're craving. There are plenty of extraordinarily generous people on here that are infinitely happy to part with their hard won findings to absolutely anyone and everyone. Your crown collection sounds absolutely amazing, how far back does it go?
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There's no year which is generally a weak strike, but there are years when dies got overused so that towards the end of their life they produced weak strikes. This happened especially from 1915 - 1919. Also, the Type 2 obverse (1920 - 1926) is much shallower cut to reduce reverse ghosting, and therefore might mistakenly be thought by the inexperienced as weak strikes. Those latter years, the portrait wears much faster, and if you put an EF example alongside a VF Type 1 obverse, you wouldn't see much difference especially in hair detail. But that's due to redesign, not weak strike. From 1926 ME onwards, there isn't any notable weak strike, though as I've said, any well-used die will produce worse results than early strikes. The General Strike was in 1926 I have always taken the position that if the lions nose is missing it's worn not weak. Depends on whether you're buying or selling, Gary!
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Should I Be Concerned?
Coinery replied to coinmerchant's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
After weighing dozens of albeit low-grade Halfcrowns which I bought for scrap, I found they could vary from 12.75g to 14.20g in these lower grades. The point being that, and especially so with a larger coin, that circulation wear can have a surprising and significant impact on weight. Hope that helps! -
Problem Coins
Coinery replied to coinmerchant's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
You have to remember you bought this as a 'mixed' lot of coins in varying grades! Auction houses list bulk lots this way because they are (mostly) not worth listing singularly due to their faults or low value generally. If they were expected to go over every coin and describe it in its minutiae, they'd never get the auction ready, neither could they afford the cost for the tome that would inevitably be their auction catalogue. You've obviously learnt a great deal from this experience, and will likely do it differently next time. I think the expectation of the auction house is that you the bidder should be doing the legwork and sorting over the lots yourself. Hence, you really need to be there, and when looking through your 3rd batch of a 50-coin lot, you'll realise with cross eyes and a scrambled brain, why they sell them described as 'mixed lot in various grades'! Great thread, coinmerchant! -
Yes, I agree! They all seem to be like that, regardless of spacing. The pictures in Michael Gouby's book suggest the same. I don't know, on Declan's pictures, the last 9 on his close-date doesn't look like it could be moved another micro-mil to the right without breaching a tooth, preliminary suggesting it might be a larger 9, maybe the punch that was used for the first 9 on the matrix. I agree the last 9 on the others is smaller, and logically so. I'm going to PM him and see what his images look like when overlapped with some transparency added...just for the fun, of course!
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You'd have to take a perfectly flat image, get it on your PC and draw some lines...the longer the lines, the more clearly you might see any differences.
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Problem Coins
Coinery replied to coinmerchant's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
On the edge, rather than the rim, means it's even more likely to be an ex mount. Holes in the edge are obviously less detracting than on the rim. However, a mount's a mount, and they seem to 'annoy' some people more than others. Whether they can put up with it or not depends on how desperately they've been looking for that particular coin. Personally, I think I would prefer the gap, i'll let you know if I ever get close to that situation. -
not a million miles from us, Coinery. twixt Stroud and Ciren, or Soiren as they say round 'ere I used to live in Coiren. Did you know there is an Old Ciren Facebook page? Just a thought. Me too, we keep overlapping Peck! See above
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not a million miles from us, Coinery. twixt Stroud and Ciren, or Soiren as they say round 'ere A very nice part of the world! We spent a lot of last winter in Soirensestur, shooting back and forth to Saul, where our boat's being built! We probably passed you a dozen times! A good memory for me is walking through Cirencester Park into town, along that straight thoroughfare and through the gates into the old part of town, with 6 inches of snow on the ground! Amazing picture-postcard stuff!
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Would that be a small 9 on the wide-gap coin?
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You can always still encounter iron signals even with the best discrimination. There will also be multiple modes. There is a good forum detectorist.co.uk and I am sure an xterra user on there will be able to assist with settings etc. They are all so different so it would be important to talk to someone with the same machine. Where are you located, there may be a dealer nearby who could also help. Thanks Colin, I'm twixt North Bristol, Chepstow, and Gloucester if you know of anyone?
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Peck'll know, he even knows the differing amounts of seasonal earwax for G5 AND I'd be interested too, as I've just started to pull one or two areas of this reign together myself.
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Hi Colin, exciting finds indeed! I don't suppose you'd happen to know how I might get a minelab xterra 50 checked out, would you? My wife bought me a second-hand one 3 or 4 years ago now, but I've never felt it was working correctly or, more to the point, it is such a complicated piece of kit that I could never be 100% sure whether it was me or not! I've only taken it out twice, and only ever dug up rusty nails, which were meant to be discriminated against! Any ideas?
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Could be some stiff competition for that one!
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Hi les occ, There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust. Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds. I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9. I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened? You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter! The exponential expansion in the number of varieties categorised only by minescule differences in tooth pointings etc was a primary factor in my decision to refocus. I'm sure most denomination collectors feel compelled to find as many varieties as have been categorised by all writers. If someone says the gap in the border teeth can be x or y microns wide and there is a definitive reference published, someone will collect both. But as always it is each to their own. I quite agree Rob. I remember in the late 1960s, Coin Monthly featured one of those "reader surveys", of 1907 penny reverses. All minute variations in pointing, length of 7 tail, etc etc (yawn), about 6 or 7 "varieties" if I remember. Where are they now? Disappeared without trace. (Thank goodness). There's no denying, though, that this kind of research into micro-varieties can throw up some interesting numismatic questions, such as the 1900/1901 proposal here! No matter how small the variation, I can totally understand someone who would want an example from each die, even if that meant a page/tray of 1900 pennies (in UNC of course)! And sorry numisdan I can't help you with your 1900/1901 penny question, hopefully someone on here can!