Coinery

There's no year which is generally a weak strike, but there are years when dies got overused so that towards the end of their life they produced weak strikes. This happened especially from 1915 - 1919. Also, the Type 2 obverse (1920 - 1926) is much shallower cut to reduce reverse ghosting, and therefore might mistakenly be thought by the inexperienced as weak strikes. Those latter years, the portrait wears much faster, and if you put an EF example alongside a VF Type 1 obverse, you wouldn't see much difference especially in hair detail. But that's due to redesign, not weak strike. From 1926 ME onwards, there isn't any notable weak strike, though as I've said, any well-used die will produce worse results than early strikes. The General Strike was in 1926 I have always taken the position that if the lions nose is missing it's worn not weak. Depends on whether you're buying or selling, Gary!

???????????

After weighing dozens of albeit low-grade Halfcrowns which I bought for scrap, I found they could vary from 12.75g to 14.20g in these lower grades. The point being that, and especially so with a larger coin, that circulation wear can have a surprising and significant impact on weight. Hope that helps!

You have to remember you bought this as a 'mixed' lot of coins in varying grades! Auction houses list bulk lots this way because they are (mostly) not worth listing singularly due to their faults or low value generally. If they were expected to go over every coin and describe it in its minutiae, they'd never get the auction ready, neither could they afford the cost for the tome that would inevitably be their auction catalogue. You've obviously learnt a great deal from this experience, and will likely do it differently next time. I think the expectation of the auction house is that you the bidder should be doing the legwork and sorting over the lots yourself. Hence, you really need to be there, and when looking through your 3rd batch of a 50-coin lot, you'll realise with cross eyes and a scrambled brain, why they sell them described as 'mixed lot in various grades'! Great thread, coinmerchant!

Yes, I agree! They all seem to be like that, regardless of spacing. The pictures in Michael Gouby's book suggest the same. I don't know, on Declan's pictures, the last 9 on his close-date doesn't look like it could be moved another micro-mil to the right without breaching a tooth, preliminary suggesting it might be a larger 9, maybe the punch that was used for the first 9 on the matrix. I agree the last 9 on the others is smaller, and logically so. I'm going to PM him and see what his images look like when overlapped with some transparency added...just for the fun, of course!

You'd have to take a perfectly flat image, get it on your PC and draw some lines...the longer the lines, the more clearly you might see any differences.

On the edge, rather than the rim, means it's even more likely to be an ex mount. Holes in the edge are obviously less detracting than on the rim. However, a mount's a mount, and they seem to 'annoy' some people more than others. Whether they can put up with it or not depends on how desperately they've been looking for that particular coin. Personally, I think I would prefer the gap, i'll let you know if I ever get close to that situation.

not a million miles from us, Coinery. twixt Stroud and Ciren, or Soiren as they say round 'ere I used to live in Coiren. Did you know there is an Old Ciren Facebook page? Just a thought. Me too, we keep overlapping Peck! See above

not a million miles from us, Coinery. twixt Stroud and Ciren, or Soiren as they say round 'ere A very nice part of the world! We spent a lot of last winter in Soirensestur, shooting back and forth to Saul, where our boat's being built! We probably passed you a dozen times! A good memory for me is walking through Cirencester Park into town, along that straight thoroughfare and through the gates into the old part of town, with 6 inches of snow on the ground! Amazing picture-postcard stuff!

Would that be a small 9 on the wide-gap coin?

You can always still encounter iron signals even with the best discrimination. There will also be multiple modes. There is a good forum detectorist.co.uk and I am sure an xterra user on there will be able to assist with settings etc. They are all so different so it would be important to talk to someone with the same machine. Where are you located, there may be a dealer nearby who could also help. Thanks Colin, I'm twixt North Bristol, Chepstow, and Gloucester if you know of anyone?

Peck'll know, he even knows the differing amounts of seasonal earwax for G5 AND I'd be interested too, as I've just started to pull one or two areas of this reign together myself.

Hi Colin, exciting finds indeed! I don't suppose you'd happen to know how I might get a minelab xterra 50 checked out, would you? My wife bought me a second-hand one 3 or 4 years ago now, but I've never felt it was working correctly or, more to the point, it is such a complicated piece of kit that I could never be 100% sure whether it was me or not! I've only taken it out twice, and only ever dug up rusty nails, which were meant to be discriminated against! Any ideas?

Could be some stiff competition for that one!

Hi les occ, There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust. Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds. I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9. I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened? You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter! The exponential expansion in the number of varieties categorised only by minescule differences in tooth pointings etc was a primary factor in my decision to refocus. I'm sure most denomination collectors feel compelled to find as many varieties as have been categorised by all writers. If someone says the gap in the border teeth can be x or y microns wide and there is a definitive reference published, someone will collect both. But as always it is each to their own. I quite agree Rob. I remember in the late 1960s, Coin Monthly featured one of those "reader surveys", of 1907 penny reverses. All minute variations in pointing, length of 7 tail, etc etc (yawn), about 6 or 7 "varieties" if I remember. Where are they now? Disappeared without trace. (Thank goodness). There's no denying, though, that this kind of research into micro-varieties can throw up some interesting numismatic questions, such as the 1900/1901 proposal here! No matter how small the variation, I can totally understand someone who would want an example from each die, even if that meant a page/tray of 1900 pennies (in UNC of course)! And sorry numisdan I can't help you with your 1900/1901 penny question, hopefully someone on here can!

Hi les occ, There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust. Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds. I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9. I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened? You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter!

I'm not sure it's a rule? However, I would think that auction houses have a fairness reputation to preserve, so it must always be worth sending lots back if for any reason they prove to be unsatisfactory. Do Sale Of Goods and Trades Descriptions Acts apply to auctions? I think all the above mentioned rulings apply to online 'fixed price' purchases! eBay AUCTIONS and distant bidding at commercial auctions I believe come under a different banner. Whilst I've not wasted a single moment following up my speculative thought, I do know the new eBay rulings re 'cooling off' periods, namely 'returns' are obligatory, only apply to fixed-price listings!

Thats exactly what i was thinking to Peter regarding his feedback, maybe he's buying them himself, who knows Could be preparing a nice big insurance claim for himself? Uncirculated prices from the insurance company for a fire- damaged bag of bullion coins? Keep your eyes open for a listing saying 'welded lump of scrap/bullion sterling silver coins .925 457g Not Gold lot collection'!

I think auctions operate under different legislation, but don't quote me on that one! That's not to say they're all crooks, mind you, Warwick & Warwick have just been more than generous to me regarding a fake in a lot I bought! I don't think they were obligated to accommodate me at all as it was a 'lot' purchase! Out of a lot of 15 I got 4 keepers, and 10 to move on, plus an extremely kind 10% refund on the hammer + BP price for the fifteenth, very happy!

Perfectly credible image posting, coinmerchant, took me ages to 'nail' that one!

Are we talking pennies here? The 1876H is commonly the narrow date variety, whereas the wide date is quite rare. Freeman has R9 for the wide date and R5 for the narrow date, so the wide date is considerably rarer: Haw, haw, what a lovely armoury you've got there! Being able to haul up a couple of images like that is what it's all about! I salute you!

In all fairness, if you've bought a 'lot' described as 'mixed grade,' how could you fairly go back to the auctioneers and say you've been misled? I think you should most definitely treat it as a learning curve, and recoup what you can without subscribing to the weaknesses you've been disappointed by in your recent auction. As you say, you've only spent hundreds, and from what Peckris is saying, all is probably not lost...next time you will be wiser! The auctions most definitely are, and most definitely are not, the places to get a bargain (hope that statement helps?)! I still salute you for getting straight into the auctions!

I remember Peter once saying you can sometimes decipher sellers' 'my refs' to calculate what a seller's paid, and make offers accordingly! A good tactic, but I wonder whether sometimes reverse psychology can also be applied? This seller looks for all the world to have paid £103.52 (I think it was) for their coin, would that push bidders to a higher bid? The coin's worth nothing like that! I think it should be seen as read that if someone posts numbers, a URL would always be appreciated! Especially for all those that keep in touch on their ayePhones! ;)251135532783

Hi William, and welcome! Whilst I did in an earlier thread today complain about your exact scenario, I do equally sympathise and understand the variables and difficulties of grading/describing coins for distant buyers, especially when the lots can run into thousands, and they run 4+ auctions annually! When you consider 'perfection' could one day mean slabbed coins or watchdog ethics and 'accountabilty' being applied to, not just coins, but to all 'antique-type' auctions, we can hopefully appreciate it would be a shame, and would undo the last suvivor of the 'wit' principle! You either need to be there, or distant- bid, taking account of the variables! I'd say sell through eBay, with integrity, is the way to go! I don't think we should buy dud/fake/imperfect coins, and then equally deceive! Better to take it on the chin and not repeat! Keep posting William! Everyone here craves intelligent debate. Also, well done you for striking out into the auction houses as a newbie!

Queen Anne 1711 Sixpence Terrible grading Blimey, that's shocking. Just had a look at his feedback - look at the state of the obverse of the 1917 florin he claimed was FDC. Even his eBay avatar looks shocked!