Coinery

Hi all, I'd like to run the following text past you all, and ask for any insights, better processes, etc. etc! It's most certainly a work without end, more a labour of love, really, enriching my interest in the coins I already hold, or coins I see and admire and wish I could hold! I never thought I'd attempt anything like this, it's developed out of the search to verify my own possible 1578/7/6 sixpence. If I may, I'd like to use this thread throughout the process for all those questions of mine that will inevitably arise, and hope that some of you might help me out with some of the answers! Anyway, I think the following text and images are are reasonably self-explanatory, and an introduction to the basic website idea... Forward Firstly, if I might clearly state, this is not a research work, as it is neither rigorous, nor focused upon the discovery of anything new. Neither is it intended to be a new catalogue of micro-varieties, as all the vagarities of hammered coinage would make for an unenviable, if not impossible task. It is however quite simply a series of die observations designed to assist fellow collectors, who are interested in classifying their coins according to Brown, Comber & Wilkinson’s monumental work ‘The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I’ (Brown et al. 2009). A significant number of superb-quality coins currently escape the net of full BCW provenance, on account of ‘inconvenient’ weaknesses in the region of a key-identifier. Resolution can then only be found in die-matching, and this is the focus of this work and the following images. This is of course a work without end, which lends itself well to the regular updates of a web-based platform, notwithstanding the fact that a book full of thousands of high-resolution images would be unviable. For those who trouble to make use of the following pages, it is expected, for a considerable number of years to come, that dies will commonly be unrepresented, and better examples will become available. Should this be the case, I would very much appreciate copies of your images for inclusion into the catalogue. Method Rather than clarify every oddity of a particular die, it was thought better to gather a core sample of ten or more (where possible) different examples of type, and then identify the more determining irregularities. These were either unique to the die, at least within the preliminary sample, or were at least a less common feature. Any identifiers with potential for confusion, or those that were closely replicated on other dies, have been avoided where possible, but highlighted in red for secondary reference. Similarly, where dies share a number of ‘similar’ irregularities, with few decisive differences, footnotes are added for further clarification. It is hoped at some point that statistical analysis can be applied to the process, and a more scientific approach used overall. However, in the meantime, be patient with me and enjoy the process. Brown, I.D., Comber, C.H., Wilkinson, W. (2009) The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I. [2009 update] Llanfyllin: Galata Print Ltd. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx BCW ‘A’ Shilling Reverse (30th November 1583 – 13th February 1585) BCW’s ‘A’ shilling reverse types, numbering just two, are easily distinguished by the presence, or not, of an over-mark. Though much less common, XX dies are thought to exist with an ‘A’ over ‘Bell’. It is assumed from the outset that, unless the interest is in micro-varieties, attempts are being made here to classify a shilling with inconclusive privy mark detail. Accordingly, the following descriptors noted on the reverse ‘A’ dies, do not involve the privy mark itself. Reverse Dies of BCW's A-b Shilling

Can anyone shed some light on which, and why? I'm of course particularly interested in relation to its correct application to hammered and early milled! Also, off topic, but I'm scanning an auction catalogue at the moment...does 'comes with pre-decimal sales ticket,' mean 'sold by Chris'?

Yes, although it's imposrtant to distinguish between coins that have been professionally cleaned ('museum' cleaning) and those that someone has buffed up using some aluminium foil and spit (yes, people do that!) which effectively polishes (and rather ruins) them! A type of 'improvement' that always brings tears to my eyes, and I never keep them, is the one which smears silver-coloured deposits actually over the original black deposits! I've always attributed it to some foiling-type process or other???

On the contrary. The Civil War started during the currency of the Triangle in Circle mark which ran from July 1641 to May 1643. With output spread over 2 years, this was the most prolific mark of the reign with £1324 silver in the pyx. Contrast this with Heart which ran for 1 year June 1630-1 where the total value of silver in the pyx was £4. As a specific amount of production was removed for the trial, this gives a pretty good ratio of the amount produced. T in C is so common that you could reasonably argue that it is overpriced in comparison to other marks, but given the usual production standards seen it is still worth paying good money plus for a top rate piece. Any premiums will be the result of conditional rarity or type rarity. Within every mark there are types which are extremely rare. It is this rarity which drives the price and competition, as witnessed by the recent discussion on the T in C marked F7/2 shilling which virtually all collectors of hammered on this forum would have bought if they had been quick enough. 8 known, dire condition comes as standard, everyone wants one, but few manage. The price was almost irrelevant. I do hope you get to write a book one day, Rob! I always really enjoy reading your posts. Always logical and well constructed, makes sometimes difficult content an easy read! (_|_) I'm serious, though!

And another 'bright' coin from the Bedale Hoard!

Ahh, yes, I remember it now, a bit of a long debate about the reverse if I remember correctly? I'd say that is the prettiest 'modern' silver coin I've seen in a very long time, beautiful!

Yes, the reverse has been well and truly Brillo'd. Not even EF in my book. Nowhere near EF, even without the Brillo! Nice avatar, Paulus, is that your's? Back to thread...isn't that a bit of silver-peel going on too?

Well, I see Paul Withers did the illustrations for the book. Why not contact him (Galata) and see if he can put you in touch? You have a superbly illogical mind, Richard, you have a talent for thinking outside the box! Thanks for that!

Nice pictures, what's the bottom coin?

Now I do mean to grab a VF one of those, once the boat's paid for!

I had a very pleasant email from Mr Davies this evening, pointing out a die variety I'd not noticed two lines further down in his book, and very kindly added that I could contact him should I want to discuss any future cataloguing issues! I have to say, I felt mildly starstruck! I would still very much love any actual, or tenuous, communication links with either Brown, Comber, or Wilkinson! Anyone?

Thanks Hussulo, very much appreciated!

Welcome aboard 50%, enjoy the educational ride! I'd say, though I hardly even bother to look at gold, on account I can't afford it, that I would like to grab an Elizabeth I Half Pound (as below). This example is available on Roderick Richardson's site for £8500...I'm still thinking about it

I broke two vertebrates in my neck, my left clavicle and nearly severed my spinal cord. Good thing the NHS only picked up on the clavicle... I started out working on a neurosurgical ward and, more often than you would imagine, bumped into major mis-diagnosis. Twice I met patients who had un-noted fractured adontoid pegs, which is basically the boney bit that stops your head from tearing up your spinal cord where it meets the top bone in your neck! All pretty shocking stuff, really!

Brasso will polish perspex very nicely... I've tried it on motorcycle fly-screens with surprisingly good results. Nice one, thank-you!

I know there has been a lot of ribbing on here regarding BNTA members, but it isn't without warrant! I am beginning to think the logo isn't worth the computer it was designed on! 'this next statement is just for fun, please don't bust an artery getting all chewed up about it,' but I think you could MORE reliably buy a slab!

A lot. I spent some time working for the Financial Ombudsman Service and essentially we started with the assumption that the claimant was in the right. Certain occupations - teachers, policemen (sorry John) were prevalent in making claims and a fair few won despite the fact that you knew in your heart of hearts that they were being somewhat economical with the truth, you just couldn't put your finger on it. In my time there, the assumption was made that professionals such as solicitors or accountants should really have known what they were doing and would have had the nous to read the small print and ask questions. However, I understand that has now changed and solicitors are now claiming like there is no tomorrow. So either we've got the worst legal profession in the world, or someone is pulling a fast one. Bizarre. I do have a degree of sympathy with anyone (apart from the above) who was mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance however as it was normally an add-on to something else, such as a pension. The cost was usually a fraction of the overall total and as such people tended to disregard it. When you add up many years worth of payments however, it does come to a tidy sum. No offence taken Derek I have only made 2 claims in my life, both for car wrecks that should have ended my claiming days, but, I was fortunate enough to be wheeled away from them. I could have submitted lots and lots of claims but chose not to. One of the easiest cons claims I could have had was for vibtration whitefinger. I spent 4 1/2 years as a coal miner and the payouts have been immense for that. They were virtually paying out just because you could be bothered to apply. Strangely enough I worked in the police at the time and one of my colleagues claimed (and was paid) for his time at the shipyard in Barrow, errrrrr "how can you be a serving police officer if you can't use your hands some days?????" I had a mis-diagnosed fractured scaphoid, which is inexcusable and a classic claim situation against the NHS A&E. They known it's often missed, so take later date X-rays to search for the beginnings of calcium deposits, which show up the fracture more clearly. The problem with breaking the scaphoid is that it only receives a blood supply from one end, meaning the other half dies and knackers your wrist if it's missed! Anyway, I was working in theatres at the time, with the surgeon who fixed it, and his colleagues who mis-diagnosed it! Not a perfect claim situation, really!

That might actually be the simplest and safest option. Within the US they will re-holder a slabbed coin in one of their new 'edge view' holders for $7.50. Why not contact them? http://www.ngccoin.co.uk/services.asp Though looks like you will need to send the coin to Germany or Switzerland ... Will try a couple of the polishing solutions here, without any fear now, as I think the above is where we are ultimately at!

I did wonder about that, and I guess they could hardly re-grade it, if their online image clearly identifies it as the coin they first graded? You never know though?

Or surgical spirit? Easy, I'm still in a period of mourning, gentlemen, I'm beating myself up on grounds of the most stupid of stupidness stupidity! I'll check-out the Perspex polisher as, despite all the resistance there is to slabs (and I wouldn't collect them, but would definitely have them on investment grounds), the coin is worth much more on the world market inside its little MS-graded plastic NGC tomb! Somebody else can buy it one day and set it free! Much like Seuk stated in a different thread, I also cannot afford to keep every coin I drop my jaw at, as much as I'd like to, but I can afford to get a good look at some bloody decent coins along the way!

Just purchased this penny. Fulfills the set?? Ahh, the rarer of the three martlet denominations...according to eBay! Nice little penny Geordie!

These Elizabeth Martlet pennies are the chameleons of all pennies! There's now a Halfgroat Martlet Penny, a Threefarthing Martlet Penny and, presumeably, somewhere, you might actually find a, well, Martlet PENNY somewhere! Another big seller who should know better! I guess I should also add the offending info. 280928863557 And the 'Halfgroat' 280920859647

You can distract Peter with some fat cigars and me with a bottle of vintage Talisker. It'll take more than one bottle if we're talking about early pennies. As for favourite monarch, I've got a soft spot for Edward the Confessor. A very interesting reign and a somewhat 'human' king. Not to mention that I'm enamoured with his coinage... Nae chance wi' the 18 year old Tally me thinks! You'd be quite amazed how many I have converted in Ukraine with that Aqua de Vita. Had a glass of talisker over 20 years ago, never found a better whiskey to-date, and it's not for want of trying as many others as opportunity presents! I've always appreciated a glass of Linkwood. Just had a quick look on the net, I might give it a try! Their 1981 runs at 56.9% doubt I'll be able to afford that one!

Suggested correct denomination! Totally ignored! 280920859647 Well respected, I believe?

You can distract Peter with some fat cigars and me with a bottle of vintage Talisker. It'll take more than one bottle if we're talking about early pennies. As for favourite monarch, I've got a soft spot for Edward the Confessor. A very interesting reign and a somewhat 'human' king. Not to mention that I'm enamoured with his coinage... Nae chance wi' the 18 year old Tally me thinks! You'd be quite amazed how many I have converted in Ukraine with that Aqua de Vita. Had a glass of talisker over 20 years ago, never found a better whiskey to-date, and it's not for want of trying as many others as opportunity presents!