Coinery

I'm sure I can see some ears!

Would the extra price be anything to do with provenance, it's the coin featured in the Spink catalogue! I love it, and I guess if you wanted one, this would have to be the one! The Scarborough coinage must surely be an easy and worthwhile coin for the Chinese to get their hands on. Just wished I had 58k handy at the time for a safe bet such as this one!

Normally I would agree with you choolie but crowns in VF and above kind of overstep my budget! I have most of the crowns post 1818 except the Proofs, 1847 Young Head, a few of the old heads and the only Wreath I have is the 1928. Just thought it would be nice to try and get a few earlier examples staying in budget of cause which this one did. Wow, you have a Gothic crown? Now any of those DEFINITELY oversteps my budget! If I ever win the lottery, Peckris, I declare here I will buy you one!

Thing is, who is making these decisions and giving the orders ? Privacy is still possible by communicating face to face or by ordinary letters/notes, all offline. It's not difficult to sidestep any monitoring if you use a bit of nous. Ahhh, now, the big problem there is, the society has produced a machine that can no longer permit us residencies in the communities we were brought up in...and given that the same machine no longer grants us the privilege of moving at a snail's pace, we have to communicate by the fastest means, namely, the monitored technologies! It's no longer any good to write a letter to a friend saying you've just got a couple of day's off...you're back at work before he's read the letter (obviously a very insignificant example of the main point)!

Nevertheless, it's true. I've looked at it very closely, and I cannot see any fingerprints when the coin is held in hand ~ and I have extremely acute eyesight. Don't forget the pic is considerably enlarged. When unclicked on it is exactly the size of a penny (on my screen anyway), can you see any fingerprints then ? errr, no You mean they're actually in it ? Crikey I think you missed my joke there Mike - you were talking about a fingerprint that was invisible in hand ... oh, never mind. No, the Jocks aren't in it. That's the one advantage they have over us I'm missing pretty much everything today, Chris. The constant rain is addling my brain Oh God, you should be down here in the SW. Not just constant rain but high winds. To think we were basking in very warm temperatures only two weeks ago. I'm sat here with laptop on lap (now there's a thing) in a caravan on the cliffs overlooking the Bristol Channel, it's been raining for a tad too long today for my liking! (our coins are stored at a secure bricks an' mortar address, by the way )

Excellent! What worries me about this coin isn't so much about what has been added, but what has been so skillfully taken away! Will our 'no obverse stops' ever feel safe again?

Yes, thanks for that, much appreciated! Absolutely love the galloping knight, superb!

I have seen many silver coins that look like this, all in low grade, it is nothing unusual. OK, I have an awful feeling I am about to learn something I should already know! Here are my questions however... Surely the silver alloy would be a consistent colour throughout the entire depth of the planchet, not just on the surface? There seem to be numerous other low-grade coins of the same type that do not manifest this copper colour beneath the surface! Isn't this quite simply a plated copper halfcrown? Oh, and apologies to the seller if I've brought a genuine article into disrepute! Not to mention the number of G5 coins I've binned on account of copper showing just below the surface. Anyone? Right, this is a complex subject! First, the Mint had a lot of difficulty with the new 50% silver alloy, the other 50% of which consisted largely of copper, though they experimented with the precise tiny proportions of tin and zinc. The discolouration you see is present on most coins between 1920 and 1926. In the earlier years, i.e. before 1923, some of the coins have a distinctly yellowish appearance, then you get the pink coppery colours a bit later. You don't see any discolouration on the BU coins as I believe the blanks were washed in pure silver before striking (can anyone confirm?). After 1926 the mix was more stable, but even so you can see ugly discolouration on worn coins all the way through to 1946. Precisely why the copper shows through more on worn specimens is something that perhaps a chemist would need to answer. Certainly the alloy was supposed to be of even mix and quality, but it may not have been particularly stable when it came to wearing characteristics, i.e. with environmental factors and the properties of sweat, etc? Some coins instead of showing the coppery hue you see there, show an even uglier grey colour. That would tend not to draw so much attention from people like yourself, wondering if it was indeed a copper coin. But I can assure you that I have seen many many examples just like that coin on eBay, and the more worn they are the more discoloured they are. The exception being coins of 1920-1922 which can often look yellowish even in high grade and led to the Mint tinkering with the alloy to try and get it right. I'd say that coins of 1925 are possibly the worst for showing the pinky colour, so it is possible they tried a one-off alloy mix in that year? Well, just as I said, I thought I was about to learn something quite significant! Thanks, Peckris, for your usual full and diligent response! I have to say, I have genuinely learnt something quite monumental there, I'm staggered, guess I've played about pre-1920's for far too long! Time to give G5 a try then

What's amusing about the original penny in this thread, is that it completely out-dazzles the hologram...that has barely any 'rainbow' in it at all!

I have seen many silver coins that look like this, all in low grade, it is nothing unusual. OK, I have an awful feeling I am about to learn something I should already know! Here are my questions however... Surely the silver alloy would be a consistent colour throughout the entire depth of the planchet, not just on the surface? There seem to be numerous other low-grade coins of the same type that do not manifest this copper colour beneath the surface! Isn't this quite simply a plated copper halfcrown? Oh, and apologies to the seller if I've brought a genuine article into disrepute! Not to mention the number of G5 coins I've binned on account of copper showing just below the surface. Anyone?

Bi-metal Halfcrown! Do you think he/she may have noticed it's rather an odd colour for a silver coin? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1925Halfcrown-/251077139068?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item3a755d1a7c

I guess the biggest drawback to a scanner is that you would have no control on where the light hits the surface of the coin. Also, it must be harder to get the colour right as, I presume, our brains would ordinarily translate a coin's colour inclusive of the light it is reflecting, sky, etc, a scanner obviously doesn't permit this? Are there ways around it?

Can't believe I didn't just come out and say exactly what you did! I'm just plain dang yeller! I thought, hmmm, bloody-'ell, I couldn't possibly, arghh... And decided not to vote at all! Don't do it capulet!

background colour definitely affects scan quality, the inside of my scanner lid is white, scanning toned copper/bronze results in very dark low contrast images - the scanner averages the dark coin/light backgound. Much better results if i put a dark blue behind the coin. For bronze with lustre, i use a yellowish brown background. Also important to crop the actual scan window as close as possible (in the preview mode) , to eliminate as much background as possible before the final scan worth experimenting, but always scan at a high res, you can always reduce the picture size later Any chance you could link to, or put up, a couple of examples with your different scanned backgrounds?

I've just left Tony Clayton's site (link left by 1949threepence in 'major copper rarities'), and noticed that a lot of the images are scans, courtesy of MP. Does anyone find scanned images beneficial in any way when viewing a coin? I've never used a scanner for coins before, but have a top of the range, monstrosity of a thing, in the mother-in-law's attic, and was trying to make a decision about whether it's worth digging out?

These are my favourite of all the 'full-size' farthings, I especially love the colour of the copper for this period, when unpitted, that is! I recently sold a 'no obverse stops' coin that I also ummed and aahhhed about keeping instead! Why didn't you go for it at £125?

THE STANDARD GUIDE TO GRADING BRITISH COINS As Declan said, even the most seasoned will consistently pull that book off the shelf...more regularly than anyone would care to admit, I suspect, especially if you are constantly switching between hammered, early milled, milled, later milled, decimal (maybe not decimal) coins, etc. It is a bit like taking your driving/TV glasses off, or coming in from the sun...no matter how good you are, there's a period of adjustment between grades, values, expectations of types, etc. If only there were a book as good that could get your eye in for all the other types out there! Things would probably be more standardised than is currently the case with CGS's.

And don't forget that grading is an art not a science. Yes, I believe the moment one realises it's an art, full of variables, and not a science, is the moment you're beginning to get it! Not forgetting to then add another twenty years or so!

People are forever putting coins up here and inviting others to have a stab at grading them, just have a go! If you honestly confess that you are just having a guess to build up your experience, there'll be half a dozen people here who will step forward and explain to you why you have or haven 't got it right, invaluable! You can be sure the grading will be just about spot-on when the big guns get involved! Welcome, and enjoy! It takes years, so be prepared!

Welcome Pies!! That's a very nice coin, much better than Fine I would say! If you paid Fine price you did incredibly well!! I would great as Good Very Fine, let's see if I get shouted down! Nothing wrong with the pics either, if you want them much bigger (in size and bytes) than the site limit, a lot of the members here (me included) upload them to a site like Photobucket and embed the links. I would value that coin at £40-£60, can I ask what you paid? I'm with you on that, Paulus, I'd say the top of your estimate too, on account it's quite pretty for its type!

Ahh, then you'll be a reasonably well informed collector, requiring a very different approach - buy quality!

to buy food and marijuana Yes the normal procedure is the other way around!! Aye!

Could probably recommend that you stay away from such distractions, you'll never get anything done! Put me off-track for a good 20 years

Been using Debbie's grading scale...Very F**ked to Extremely F**ked!

I personally think that attempting to buy the best examples will prevent you from learning, you need as many coins in hand as possible! You're going to make all kinds of mistakes, and much better to be doing that on lower value coins! Not forgetting of course that lower-grade coins will hone your attribution skills considerably! Also, I presume, what you need is a collection? Get some stuff together with the plan to upgrade it once money and experience is more in your favour! You could very quickly lose interest if you've only got two coins in your 'collection,' with the prospect of another month's hard saving or more to your next one! Get the books, get some coins in hand, and get classifying, that would be my tip! Forget the struggles, just enjoy, you can struggle later, once you know exactly what you're looking for! How many beads do you want? How many jewels in the crown? Misaligned letter in the legend? Etc etc.