Coinery

The picture could be better but it doesn't look fake to me. There's a lot of fake 1818 and (more rarely) 1819 on ebay from time to time. Strangely I've yet to see 1817 and 1820. That is; of the type known to me - There may be other kinds of fakes around! Nor to me. It may have been cleaned or dipped but it looks ok. Went for a good price! I have to confess...uncertainty kept me off a dabble on this coin! It stayed around the 60 mark for a long time!

The picture could be better but it doesn't look fake to me. There's a lot of fake 1818 and (more rarely) 1819 on ebay from time to time. Strangely I've yet to see 1817 and 1820. That is; of the type known to me - There may be other kinds of fakes around! Thanks Seuk, Despite the poor picture, I couldn't believe the coincidence of the two 'pointers' that had been noted on the reverse of the 1818 fake, as mentioned above, being just about visible, in just about the right place...wouldn't hang a man on account of my flimsy evidence however :-) . Off the subject a bit, but do you have any convincing EdVII fakes/cont. forgeries in your collection? Is there anything to watch out for, that could fool? I've tried to buy a few of the better counterfeit EdVII coins on eBay, but can't get close...they seem to sell at a price that always surprises me!

Is it this one you had in mind Coinery? George II half crown thread Aye, thank-you! I copied off all the points and images of interest to my desktop, but never catalogued the exact source...lesson to be learned there!

A 100 year old, part-toned, lustre coin, doesn't mean it's free of 'sh**e,' this particular coin certainly wasn't! Equally, there are the invisible finger greasings that have been mentioned, a million things. I think it's just a mistake I'd hate to see happen to anyone else. It does make your blood run cold when something you hoped to improve upon, suddenly appears from the tissue a horror story. In 15 years I have not had the experience of snapping a 2x2 or capsule shut, thinking 'phew, that's done, I can just relax now, it's timeless!' I look forward to one day completing the process of handling, weighing, measuring, researching, and cataloging, with the ultimate satisfaction of decontamination, preservation, and final pleasure of snapping that coin shut, or storing it away, in a place where I can enjoy it and feel reasurred that it's in suspension! Paranoid? Maybe! Would be so good to get this one ticked off!

Thanks Bob That is good enough to me. Miracle cures just don't exist. A bit of hot soapy water,a softened cocktail stick seems to be the only remedy. A little tip from experience, and the reason I'm so much chasing a 'recognised' and scientific approach to this whole mystery of coin preservation (mystery in as much as not one of us on the forum have grabbed the gauntlet and stepped forward to state 'these are the facts!' ). There are some very big guns on here, writing reams from decades of experience, and still this subject has yet to reach a satisfying conclusion. That speaks more than a thousand words to me! Meaning, of course, it's still considerably unknown and misunderstood. I washed a lightly streak-toned EdVII penny a few years ago with soap and water (i forget the soap, lord i wish i could remember), it was a really nice toned effect (if it were possible for streaks of tone to be described this way) and had full lustre otherwise. Anyway, I dried this very nice coin off to discover the nice cloud-like wisps of tone had become purple, like some bad peroxide day in a hairdressing salon. We may get away with soap sometimes, but I would never trust it on anything with a micro-precious surface!

''Right, we have a verdict. It's a copy. I have already conveyed the info to Paulus, but a general consensus of 4 people was 3 duff and 1 probably based on feel (slightly soapy), weight (4.91g), bubbles, particularly on the edge where it was probable that the sprue was removed, a few file marks on the edge etc. A fifth opinion given based on a comparison with the genuine article and about 15 or 20 other A2/1 shillings was that the C profile is wrong (too closed and with the top serif), the robe decoration is wrong, the lion is wrong and the linear circle on the reverse is too uneven, which given it is a guide is probably conclusive. However, it does ring quite well and so could possibly be a contemporary copy if it has been genuinely dug as the scrapes would suggest. '' Something that really interests me about this coin is, if it's cast, the original 'mould' must have been made presumeably from a genuine XII, there would be little point casting a fake from a fake. So, why would the C and robes, etc, etc, not have taken this form before? Is there any explanation for this? I'm assuming nobody would have bothered to cut their own C's?

Worry not. Although olive oil contains oleic acid, any acidic properties are neutralised by the other ingredients. You can see this when mixing olive oil with vinegar (very much an acid) - the two will not combine at all, and separate out into layers as does oil on water. On the other hand you can mix vinegar and lemon juice with no difficulty : acetic acid and citric acid. I feel a bit happier, but what's the talk about coins getting darker over time when using olive oil? You really don't want that for your 1902 LT halfpenny that still retains a significant covering of only lightly toned lustre! I ask this in complete ignorance...how long have I got if I start wiping my light-toned copper with extra virgin before sealing them up in 2x2's Am I going to see a difference in my lifetime? Why hasn't the perfect product been developed, given the financial outlays involved in coin collecting?

Sweet Mary mother of Jesus! For the first time since I graduated, I glad of my Chemistry degree! Everything from acid baths to re-plating! And on the subject of verigris - two lines... "Rub with a fine cloth which has been treated with copper soap. Copper soap can be obtained from drugstores." ============================== Having now googled 'copper soap', all I'm coming up with is a fungicide... I wonder if that is what they mean?! Think I might just save myself £10.80 ;-) Does it say anything at all about a neutral preserver for coins? I just can get my head around the acidic olive oil thing at the moment, there must be an even less acidic 'grease' we can 'smear' on our coins? I've got my eye on a couple of books, I mean to get mine for £10.80 INCLUDING postage!

I have the coin packaged up at home ready to post back to the seller (I am in Australia until next weekend), he finally told me his address yesterday and has agreed a full refund, all going through eBay Resolution Centre. He claims he has had his own experts examine it and found nothing wrong, but if true they can only have been judging from the photos. I havent done this before and have a question - he isnt ging to refund me until he gets his coin back, what recourse do I have if he simply doesnt repay me after that, does anyone know? Does eBay step in? Thanks for any advice! Also, I have no idea how to check whether it's silver, does anyone know? I have to confess I have never had to send a coin back in these circumstances before, I'm as lost as you! I just hope you paid via PayPal? Even with registered post the guy could say 'you've sent me a washer, where's my coin,' so no real protection even with that! I don't think I'd buy a coin off eBay without using PayPal, unless I knew the seller, and received a consistent service from them. Re the silver testing...people will be bringing a crucifix to my 'van...but a micro-spot of silver testing solution on the edge of the coin, for the second or two it takes to confirm high-grade silver, is what I have done in the past with coins that have niggled me! I am more paranoid than most about even the smallest blemishes on my own coins so, I can reassure you, If you've got that hammered coin ready by a running tap and, the second the micro-spot of solution turns red, you plunge it into the flow and flush it well off, you won't even see a mark where the spot has been, nothing, no clean silver spot, nothing! All you are left with is a coin that you either finally feel happy about, or a potential fake. Of course there are many other factors, apart from silver content, but knowing whether it's sterling or not is a massive step forward on the Sherlock trail. Try some on the edge of a nasty old BV coin and see. I'd happily test a 1k+ coin with this method, if I was remotely unhappy about that aspect of it! Usual disclaimers, of course...at your own risk, they are acids after all!

What about mint lustre, has it had any negative effect on lustred coins? Have you ever come upon an example where it's had an 'odd' effect?

Certainly an interesting little shilling! Paulus, have you any means of checking whether it's silver or not? What do you intend to do with the coin? I'm still amazed at the level of input from the members of this forum! So much information, it's like trying to keep up with Facebook, which i tried for about 3 weeks to see what the fuss was all about, before realising how much meaningless drivel is on it! 'think I might go to bed now!' ...5 comments! 'sleep well'...'think I might too'...'lucky you, I've still got the plates to clear away'...'been a long day'...'me too!' probably 7 thumbs up as well!

I wonder if when we hit the CuNi phase a lot of the magic went out of of it all? No longer the treasure chests of pirates past, may as well be plastic now, with integral security chips. I think of how much more inspiring it must have been to be working with precious metals; the engravers, the mint workers, surrounded by all that gold and silver. The magic and mystery of man's second greatest attraction must have brought some special energies to the creative table? I know there are many, many, many, people who collect the post 1920 coinage, but I just cannot get excited about it! Do you think the mint cranks it up a gear for the modern gold and silver strikes? Do you think CuNi is a factor affecting inspiration?

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'? Sorry, Rob! Just to clarify...I know you've mentioned variation, but I mean 'NO ring', most definitely a flat nothing! A flan crack can sometime cause that effect Hi Colin, But in the absence of...? Have you had, or do you have, any coins that sound like a disc of aluminium or a plastic milk bottle top (Morrison's green top), yet are made of silver, and show no other good reason for being a copy/fake/forgery, etc?

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'? Sorry, Rob! Just to clarify...I know you've mentioned variation, but I mean 'NO ring', most definitely a flat nothing! A flan crack can sometime cause that effect I have the world's rarest coin - a 1967 penny that doesn't 'ring' Having said that, there is no evidence whatever of any cracking to the flan. That is actually a great comfort Monsieur le Peckris, because I have certainly had some good coins in every respect, as discussed, except they sound bloody awful! I really am wondering how often a genuine coins goes 'thuck' when you 'drop' it onto a hard surface, instead of 'brring'. The descriptive sounds are purely for entertainment value only, no brain cells were harmed in the creation of this post...I hope you know what I mean? :-)

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'? Sorry, Rob! Just to clarify...I know you've mentioned variation, but I mean 'NO ring', most definitely a flat nothing!

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'?

Very fast work, glad I'm not up against you with a snipe, or liking the same thing in an auction room! ;-) I scanned over amazon too, only the big buck books left on there that I could see! Good buy!

Do you know what? I'm going to academically research and write a chapter on this very issue, because it seems to me that nobody really has the answers to this most important, and repeatedly raised issue. I have asked similar questions about cleaning, protecting, decontamination, etc. etc. and made little headway. Certainly the books I own never touch on the subject, except to say NEVER clean coins. I'm not sure why they don't continue with 'but if you don't, that fingerprint that you can't even see right now, will make what was once an eye-pleasing bust into a horror story!' Got to be worth a few emails here and there, I'd say! I already have an academicaly written book called "cleaning and preservatio of coins and medals" it was published in 1976 by Durst and the number is ISBN 0-915262-03-7 Unfortunately it does not come with the doctorate that you need to understand it!!! I'll be buying the first available copy! Thanks for that!

Do you know what? I'm going to academically research and write a chapter on this very issue, because it seems to me that nobody really has the answers to this most important, and repeatedly raised issue. I have asked similar questions about cleaning, protecting, decontamination, etc. etc. and made little headway. Certainly the books I own never touch on the subject, except to say NEVER clean coins. I'm not sure why they don't continue with 'but if you don't, that fingerprint that you can't even see right now, will make what was once an eye-pleasing bust into a horror story!' Got to be worth a few emails here and there, I'd say!

Just moving something else across, I'm genuinely interested in the finer points of concluding this is a copy! 'If it's got a good ring, what is it made from apart from a nice tightly compressed bit of silver?'

It would be madness! The devaluing impact clipping has on coins is far far above any pennies 'literally' that you would make from a few microgram of trim.

I guess this thread is as good a place as any to bring to your attention that Blackpool trading standards are in the final stages of gathering evidence against an ebay seller who was selling lots of hammered, and 'other' coins, up to the 1k bracket, around 2010/11 apparently. So, a good time to check your seller lists, and start testing your hammered 'and others' with Silver Testers, etc. LAVENDERBLUE42, ring any bells? I personally bought a cleverly 'poor' imaged Henry VIII groat. As you probably know by now I have to use an alternative address which, in the case of the groat, I couldn't get to for around 3 weeks, enough time for lavenderblue to no longer exist! If anybody feels they may have been affected, I can provide the case officer's email address.

All this talk of silver scrap has got me begging to ask...where is the best place to sell? Does anyone have any sources, places they normally sell? I see ukscrapgold are offering .59p/g, has anybody ever sold to them? Do you get exactly what they say, without any hidden charges or issues?

What were your first thoughts on this book, did you like it? It's on my list.

About 10 years ago I regularly spent the equivalent of over 100% of my monthly income on single coins, I was consistently spending more than I could afford. However, I'm not sure if this really counts, because whilst I would love to have been/be in the position where I could buy a coin and own it forever more, I simply can't! Everything I've ever bought has always been for sale - negative side...I have always had a fluctuating collection. Positive side...I have a fluctuating collection, and have also enjoyed a large number of coins I would never have hoped to even touch, let alone personally paw over and research, had I been accumulating and damaging my cashflow by sitting on a fixed collection. I do one day wish to compile a personal encyclopaedia of coins, of the very very best. However, I need to be sure I'll never have to sell them, before I can fully put my heart into it.