Coinery

Being too new to this site to have taken part in the previous heated discussions, and holding back a bit, I would like to say that as a collector I hate them with a passion, for many if not all the reasons eloquently articulated by others. The first one I bought that was slabbed was immediately broken out of it (carefully I might add, with the aid of a hammer and chisel). But I can see the point for sellers, investors and dealers, if their integrity survives ... These are being slabbed as an experiment to measure sales, I truly hope to see them out of the slabs and in proper cared-for collections in the future. There are no slabs in my own private collection. I saw a liz halfpenny in a slab on eBay a while back, looked like something you could pick up in ikea, horrible!

I couldn't agree more! What you have said captures the whole spirit of it all. When I was 18 I bought an old Jaguar 420G for pennies and stripped the whole thing to pieces in my parents' back garden...lovingly dealing with every aspect of the rebuild was the thing that made that car special. I could afford one now, that is far better condition, and maybe even concours, but I wouldn't have anything like the same love and interest in owning something that has been grafted on by someone else...but many are the flashy classical car owners who go out and buy the best and don't even know what waxoyl is! They're classic car equivalents of the slab collectors, but there is no denying they are out there! Hanging around forums like this, making a few mistakes, battling out the details of a grade, is what makes it so fascinating for me!

Big smile, Gollum, you can certainly turn on the emicons :-)

I have to confess I sent off 15 coins for slabbing, just to explore the commercial viability of selling them first hand. I'm wanting to know whether they'll fetch any extra dividends that justifies the extra outlay. As Rob has said, a great deal has been said on the matter and, from a collection point of view, you either like them or you don't. However, I do believe, but have yet to corroborate it, that there is a UK market out there who are wanting to 'play safe' with their Internet purchases and, in the world of the web, feel safer when they can surf and read all about the TPG's and, in that 'researching' process, feel a level of security they can't find in a dodgy picture, or a 'home' grading by 'joes_stuff' on eBay, who then goes on to say 'see pictures (shoddy) and decide for yourself'! Maybe the slab buyers can grade, but just don't want to take responsibility for it, especially when they are shelling out hundreds, which they then have to justify to themselves. I know the TPG's grading is said to be variable, but it's slightly more consistent than Ebay's efforts and, the bottom line, you are more likely to find a buyer, should you come to sell it in the future, who will take the TPG'S efforts at grading far more seriously than Joe from Joes_stuff! Personally, I have to say, a box of clinical plastic slabs just doesn't do it for me, though I can see the entombment appealing to those who like accumulating investments...pots of sterling, gold rings, etc., and like the idea of the coin being somewhat protected. There you go Rob, that should get it going! ;-)

Just a thought re orientation of the letters but, if I was going to engrave a coin for my loved one, preserving the obverse side of the coin, which I presume to be generally what happens, then I would have the bust or obverse design ^ ^ ! So, Dr Watson, which way up are the the letters, when keeping the bust/obverse-design correctly orientated?

It's definitely a book for the birthday/valentine/Easter/summer solstice/Christmas wish list, no doubt about it! It does put your average-incomed family man/woman into serious grovelling mode, no doubt about that, either!

When you say it's not for the novice, do you mean by virtue of it's cost? Post 1860 there are Freeman/Gouby/Groom which superceed Peck. Pre 1860 a novice will probably not be collecting with a vengence. Do you know, it's really interesting to hear you say that (or write that, I should say [write]) because, when I first developed an interest in coins, it was the historical aspect that grabbed me...quickly followed by the artistry of it all. I didn't even get excited about a coin, or think it to be anything like old, unless it was at least pre-Victorian. I bought stacks of Georgian junk back then for pennies, and would've loved a book like Peck's at that time, just for the other great love of it all...nailing a coin down to an exact moment in time, and being able to catalogue it with as much detail as possible. It's taken me a long time to get over the 'old' thing, but I now get extremely excited about a nicely toned EdVII (with as much underlying lustre as possible - just as long as it doesn't interfere with the tone ;-)). I guess what I really mean to say is...I wish someone could reprint peck for kindle or something, anything, just get something out there that's readily available and reasonably priced...two-volume paperback, that'll do! I do catch your drift though, Peter.

When you say it's not for the novice, do you mean by virtue of it's cost?

Apologies - yes, I probably should have mentioned that Coinery is now the proud owner of this one! Proud, and pleased indeed! It paid for itself within days of my taking receipt of it (superbly packaged, by the way), by identifying two types that I had previously marked down as standard, when in fact they were nothing of the kind. A great book, Gollum...as I PM'd you, I sincerely hope you locate one, I cannot recommend it any more highly than i do, especially for the pre-Freeman copper.

Thanks, Azda! You really will have to forgive me here, as my knowledge of these things are ZERO, but are there any reasons why a camera is better than a scope that could do the full job? Also, was there a particular scope you were referring to? Many thanks for any further info.

No, the Traveller USB camera is just used as a digital microscope for large magnifications of small areas of a coin ie examining overdates. As far as a digital camera setup goes, you'll probably want either: a digital compact with a macro mode; or a DSLR and a prime (fixed focal length) macro lens. In general, the more megapixels the better - it's easy to crop away those you haven't used. Obviously, the DSLR route is a lot more expensive, but prime macro lenses usually contain high quality optics and also allow you to position the camera further away from the coin - which makes lighting the coin easier. If you do go for a prime macro lens, one that will do 1:1 reproduction will be the dog's doodahs. This means that at 1:1 the object will be the same size on the sensor as it is in reality ie a shilling would only just fit into the frame. Thanks, Nick, very much appreciated, a great starting place. I think DSLR will be the way forward then. As you've obviously got your head around these things, would you mind if I came back to you for a little more advice on the matter when I've narrowed down a couple of set-up's?

Can you use them to take full images of coins, like crowns for example?

Very, VERY, nice! Azda, what is your photography set-up? I'm in the middle of researching a good set-up for myself, just for coin photography. Do you know enough about the hobby to offer any suggestions? Coinery, you may want to look at the ebay link Gollum has above, thats more of a professional setup for taking coin picture, camera seems mounted. I personally do nothing special, just the natural light (outside) I have a blacony on the house with a large ledge which is where i go (sometimes freezing my nuts off if the weather is cold and i have a few coins to do. I think basically its allabout the feel of your camera and knowing when the picture is right. Larger coins you can get quite close to, smaller coins need a little more distance or else they can look blurry after cropping Well if I am honest, I have all the things needed to do it properly apart from a macro lense for my canon digital, I was thinking of buying a cheap usb camera just for fun, and I have a light box in my darkroom that I can put coins on for pics if I can be bothereed to go into the loft, so if Coinery wants to grab that then I wont be moaning at him. Can I just check with you both then...is the Traveller USB camera the type that you use for your pictures, Azda, or do you use it simply to view items on the PC? And, Gollum, thanks for the gesture re letting the camera potentially go. Do you recommend this type of camera set-up, it's only 1.3mp, seems very low to me? I could really do with some good advice on this subject. I'm looking for a fixed set-up, that's solely for taking pictures of coins. Anything?

Very, VERY, nice! Azda, what is your photography set-up? I'm in the middle of researching a good set-up for myself, just for coin photography. Do you know enough about the hobby to offer any suggestions?

Of course! I didn't want to re-state the obvious! I came from a working background where the duplication of facts were a tedious and unnecessary evil.

I'm sure this seller has checked his figures, but all those auction pieces with high start prices, and no bids, will be costing a fortune...£1500 start price on one item!

Here's a good one. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-1902-Half-Penny-coin-110th-birthday-gift-/120842599960?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item1c22c7be18 Targeting the micro-market I'd say! Just hope someone gets me one, one day!

OK, so what's an ultrasonic cleaner? Any links? Also, what about the acetone? Will need to get the crud off before worrying about gloves!

So, just to clarify...are we saying that acetone is not detrimental in the least to copper, silver, lustre, or toning? That a good long soak in the stuff is harmless? I am getting to the stage in my collecting life where I'm growing increasingly anal about the handling of coins, for fear of the greasy acids damaging the surfaces in years to come...also, when buying a new coin I wish I could totally decontaminate it of any greasy residues before sealing it up and coveting it away. Acetone could be the answer to this prayer from what you're saying????

I agree too Coinery, I love nicely toned coins too. In fact I look at my collection of shillings rather like a chocolate box of different shades which highlights the fact that the collection is unique and reflects my choices. 'chocolate box,' what a delightful and poetic comparison, very nice!

Also, just to further clarify...when I said 'tarnish' it was very much tongue in cheek, I wouldn't have followed the statement with a cash offer of £60 (which I of course knew would not be accepted for such a lovely coin) if I truly thought the toning was best described that way. I guess this thread moved at a million miles an hour, easy to forget who said what when! So that's no to 60 quid then Paulus? 'joke...right!' A very interesting thread, like a numismatic soap!

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Well, despite all the speculation, I'd still pay AU for the coin, and there is £60 waiting any time you want it. So, in terms of whether you've paid through the teeth or not, you could measure the wisdom of your purchase by what you can get for it. A top coin, I like it a great deal!

Try as I may, I can't see anything less than AU from the photos! I'd love to believe it's UNC, it's a beautiful coin...£60 still stands :-)

I totally agree. I'd much rather have a coin with even patina than with patchy uneven lustre. Take this 1862 penny (ignore the horrible scan - it looks great in hand; dark glistening virtually prooflike fields and such sharp edges I've sometimes wondered if ...) : it would value less than a BU example which I can kind of understand, but it would even fetch less than one with patchy lustre, which is just stupid. Just how I like a coin to look, and a good enough scan to see the sharpness of hair and fingers! I absolutely could not collect anything different. That's not to say I wouldn't buy different...I just wouldn't look at them and sail away to faraway thoughts and imaginings, as I often do with the coins I love! Thanks! You won't believe it, but I got that penny in the mid-1990s from the Midland Fair ... from a dealer who clearly didn't appreciate it : it was in his £1 box. Crikey, those days are long gone! Every joe in the street thinks he's won the lottery if he stumbles across any grade of penny in his grandma's sock drawer.