Coinery

Try again...The image quality is much better in the second edition, so I read somewhere, which is why I purchased that particular edition for myself. I've never browsed the first edition to check this out for myself however. If you think you're hooked now, just wait until you start scanning over the pages of Freeman! Tie up your purse strings and throw away your cheque book would be my advice ;-)

Ahh, pish, I never meant to embed the reply in the middle of the above text like that, damned phone!

The image quality is much better in the second edition, so I read somewhere, which is why I purchased that particular edition for myself. I've never browsed the first edition to check this out for myself however. If you think you're hooked now, just wait until you start scanning over the pages of Freeman! Tie up your purse strings and throw away your cheque book would be my advice ;-) That's not the first edition - which was 1969? 1970? But because the 1985 is more up to date than the 1st edition, and is also out of print, it fetches more than twice as much (usually). I never saw the point to that with regard to prices except to a book collector.

See you in a couple of year's, then! Congratulations and best wishes, Stuart

Don't suppose you have any examples of these do you Declan? When I look at mine it looks like its the middle diamond that doesn't touch the baseline ? of course... Type 1 above, Type 2 below... Damn good photography!

I've just reflected on the above...they obviously can't sell short of your bid, you'd notice in the final published prices! Haven't got my thinking cap on tonight! I'm still amazed I won nothing, though!

If there are any techniques, Peter, I'd sure like to know them? I left around 5k in absentee bids at the last DNW auction, this was my first ever absentee auction, and I placed bids at more than double the estimate in some cases, and at least 80% of my bids were a decent amount over the estimate. I still cannot believe to this day that I didn't win a single lot! I do wonder, if there's only a £ or 3 difference in the bidding, whether the auctioneers let the lots go to the floor. It's much easier to process sales and get rid if you're dealing with an attendee, also it keeps a frenzy going in the room, I should think?

Probably a highly inappropriate conversation, but I have heard that the same process used for 'ageing' silver jewellery, will also work to some degree with copper! Might be worth tying it out on something of low value, just to improve eye appeal, if you're determined to polish something for your own collection. An interesting benefit of Playing around with such processes is that it might just help you in spotting artificially toned coins in the future! Apparently, liver of sulphur (nasty toxic fumes when reacting with silver etc), or the yolk of a hard boiled egg, will add tone to a shiny coin. Give it a try and see what happens! Put the boiled yolks of one or two eggs into a sealed bag or jar with the coin, and leave overnight - this may darken the coin too much, or you may need to repeat the process a second time. Totally trial and error! Happy boiling!

You don't seem to have read any of my posts? I suggested that acid has eroded away the metal to such an extent that the underlying stress patterns caused by the teeth area of the strike (normally invisible) have been exposed to view. I concur 100% with your posts and theory! My thread echos exactly what you have been saying, mine's just a proposed idea of the processes involved!

Distracted? You have hit the nail right on the head there, I just cannot stop from picking up my phone and checking the threads out. It's real pain that I can view all the new content at the click of a button, because that is what I am doing now, more and more! It's a great idea Mr Peckris, Sir...keep us all addicted to the forum, leaving us no time to get out there and surf the world for bargain coins. :-)

The 'tooth' between D & G, alongside the colon, on the obverse, stretches well beyond the legend, and breaches the field, without the slightest distortion to the lettering and, as Rob suggested at the start of the thread, seems a little odd if this is purported to be a stretched flan. There seems to be no other rational explanation for this coin, scientifically speaking (outside of any suggestion that there was a die cut with teeth extending beyond the legend), other than to say that the extended teeth were exposed by erosion. It's not inconceivable, we already know that metal becomes harder when stressed and compressed - this makes perfect sense then to me that the compression forces at the edge of the coin, forming the teeth, would penetrate deep into the blank, never to be seen again until the softer, unstressed metal, is dissolved first by some 'chemical process or other.' All humbly theoretical of course!

Rob & Peckris - Christ (forgive me for blasphemy, if it offends you), you guys, where do you find the time or patience to share so much?

Bugger!

Every megapixel is sacred. Don't waste 'em. Wear on her plait is what we're looking for here and the lions/harp show wear on the reverse. Good strike though as frequently the lions are pretty poorly defined. I would micrograde and go NEF-EF. If Victoria really had looked like that she would have had all the crowned heads of Europe forming a disorderly queue outside Buckingham Palace. By all aqccounts though (mostly her own), she made up in enthusiasm for what she lacked in star quality. Her diary entry concerning her wedding night is very revealing... Sorry to be so un-PC but it is Christmas! Wow, I never knew there were diary documents out there re queen Vic! Are they compiled in a book or online resource somewhere, I'd love to read it!

Total Sherlock Holmes here, as I know not a jot about this scenario. However, in support of the acid theory, the coin looks like it may have been placed reverse side down in a flat-bottomed vessel, which has protected the raised surfaces of the reverse from the degree of erosion that looks to have ravaged the obverse. The acid would continually be neutralising itself underneath the fine gap between the reverse and vessel bottom through its ongoing reaction with the material. Whereas the obverse would have been exposed to the rip-roaring effect of full strength acid bearing down on it throughout. Doesn't explain everything, but it's food for thought!

What are you selling them for, including postage, Rob?

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across all preachy but that's just the way I do it. In hard cash terms I would expect to get that for around 'fair' money and then hope I didn't need to sell it in a hurry. As regards grading hammered - that's a black art to me! Hey, not preachy at all! I absolutely 100% agree with your point, it's the most logical and clearest approach to grading, especially if you are grading to sell!

Do you mind if I have a dig at this one? I'll get in first so I can reflect on any other grading suggestions to follow. I'd personally go with fine/good fine, probably pulling the whole thing back to a fine overall, in view of the obverse scratch, and the reverse 'stain'. So I'm going for 'fine'. I'll watch out the other opinions with the greatest of interest. Put yourself in the position of a collector buying blind. Would you prefer 'Fine' or 'F/GF. Scratch on obverse, stain on reverse'? In my opinion, you mention damage rather than attempt to grade it. I would have to say I have given the obverse the benefit of the doubt as the picture leaves something to be desired and that (recent?) scratch would be the killer for me. As Rob has said, this is one where a bit of blue baize would be a better contribution to the collection. You're absolutely right...grade irrespective of damage, recording faults separately and accordingly! I have read much however that talks about grades being determined by a coin's faults; in hammered for example, by percentage of original edge, thereby using the extent of its clipping to arrive at a grade - not saying that this is good or bad either way. I think when I arrived at 'fine' I was thinking in terms of ££££$$$$$€€€€€, rather than descriptive aspects. Maybe not the best approach. Lesson learned, and point taken.

For Charles I shillings you want Michael Sharp's article in the BNJ 1977. BCW is the best reference for Elizabeth I silver as it differentiates the dies with reference to the punches used for the various components. What it does not do is list all the individual dies within a type, so different legend readings such as ELIZAB, LEIZAB, ELIZB for the samemark and issue are not noted - and there are a lot of different readings. Still worth getting, though I would recommend a hardback copy as the paperback cover soon becomes a bit distressed with use, certainly if it gets as much use as mine has. Brilliant, thanks, Rob, HB BCW it is! Are all the known dies catalogued somewhere? Would this be another BNJ undertaking?

That was a great read...I feel rather inadequate just asking you this simple question, but what are/is the best reference literature you use for your Charles I shilling collection? I've got North but obviously need something much more involved to take things to the next level. Incidently, have you got, or looked at, The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I by Brown et al.? Does this book go into the finest detail, would you or any other recommend it?

Codeine is an 'ine,' a close relative to diamorphine (heroine), people pay good money for a trip like your's! Did you back the horse? I forget the stats, now, it does act as a hallucinogen for a number of people, not all, I think your reaction was at the top end of the drug's hallucinogenic potential. Take paracetamol AND ibuprofen (if you're able), spreading the maximum recommended dose over 24hrs. Ibuprofen will take a little while to build up levels in your system, but it should help a bit! Time for a disclaimer - read all the information provided with the drugs, and consult your GP/dentist...they're insured! Good luck and happy Christmas, Gollum, you'll be fine!

I 100% second the above and, sorry to put a dampener on things, but your ABX will not provide you with any kind of pain relief for a number of days yet! Pain killers are not really that effective against this kind of pain, but codeine will help a bit if you can get your GP to prescribe them for you? Beware though codeine can make a lot of people extremely sick, not pleasant when opening your mouth fully is an issue! You'll be feeling better for Christmas!

The tangibility of a hard-won 'sweat & blood' gathered folder/book/page, cataloging man's greatest weakness, just cannot be replaced by a collection of nicely catalogued images on a PC...not for me at least! Speaking for myself though I'd probably say it's cheaper in the long run to store your collection in a bank, as I have become aware that every time i make a coffee, or pour a glass of wine, and 'treat' myself to an audience with said folders, i always come away surfing the 'scene' for 'a better one,' or 'the missing one,' even just 'another one' ('cause it's cheap!) you know the illness that is passion, I'm sure!

Do you mind if I have a dig at this one? I'll get in first so I can reflect on any other grading suggestions to follow. I'd personally go with fine/good fine, probably pulling the whole thing back to a fine overall, in view of the obverse scratch, and the reverse 'stain'. So I'm going for 'fine'. I'll watch out the other opinions with the greatest of interest.

I often wonder why it is, for the sake of £20 worth of silver bullion, that the counterfeiters don't just do the job properly and be done with it?