Coinery

Was just responding when wife came in from a stressful late shift in ITU! Tomorrow it is then! :-) Such a lovely coin!

The examples are endless! However, more importantly, what about the Elizabeth shillings that are scribed with either an X or very often XII? They are the Shilling coins I would argue are the most often engraved this way and, interestingly, the first and most confusing of the new denomination/shillings that where introduced...and most likely the reason for the XII in the reign of JI and all the shillings going forward

Yes, but very few if any of these marks are drawn as crosses and, regardless, were they ever held as a spiritual statement, or used as a singularly specific denomination for passing on a spiritual message? Also, if you had a valuable comodity/coin in that period, would you seriously deface it with your spiritual or political statement/beliefs/values before passing it on? Wouldn't that make it a troublesome coin to spend if that were true?

Why don't we see 6ds significantly defaced with crosses from the same period, except on the rare occasion where perhaps it's used to defraud a 6d? Otherwise it's an exclusive phenomenon to the Shilling! X/XII scratched on shillings, which doesn't draw me to defacement...instead, at best, a ritual from J6 that had to deal with unmarked Elizabeth shillings, which then culturally continued thereafter, as best I've understood it to date! X or X|| scratched on an unmarked or worn Shilling (in the masses and consistencies with which it happens), with all the other variants (fraud, mistake) inbetween, is a no-brainer for me. I'm sticking with the sensible tudor, and subsequent Stuart community solution to big coins, which had to deal with clipped coins, and the introduction to the peasant communities of a new denomination...makes social and numismatic sense to me!

In which case I humbly, though unconvincingly, stand down! ? It's been a long-standing and numismatically debated subject on here, without any strong evidential conclusion to convince me otherwise..which sensibly leaves me remaining in the scratch for ease of identification in a candlelit environment camp! :-)

I'm still unresolved on this, thinking that a lot of shillings (unmarked) from Elizabeth onwards (and also where future xii coins were worn) were ritualistically scratched/scribed with crosses (and often XII to coroborate)to ID them in the new shilling culture, right up until W3 of course. It happens too frequently, and in the language of Shilling, and on just the one denomination, to mean very much else in my humble opinion! not succinctly put, but I have had a beery day off! :-)

What a messy Acorn, Rob...only just picked up, because of this thread, that the Ac/Er is only known (so far) on the straight date 73! Be interesting to get a close up look at the Rose for any Rose over, because your coin has to be a good candidate for Ac/Er both sides?

Elizabethan coinage for some strange reason never seems to command the same prestige as the other Tudors, despite being arguably a classic and clearly lengthy period of the dynasty. I personally love it, and your rarer acorn coin, Rob, must ride extremely close to being one of the best about...at least I haven't seen one (since you first presented it on here) that I've desired more! a beautiful, beautiful, coin! Now you've inspired me to take a cursory look for a die match! I'll switch the antiquated old dell on later and take a look! :-)

Nice find! ? This is bust 5A with rose 18 which, luckily for you, isn't a combination presently known with the ermine mark, leaving only Acorn or eglantine, which UNFORTUNATELY for you share the same devices for their reverses (lis 41, lion 62, etc., etc.), which makes them impossible to separate without finding a die match So, in view of that fact, and that I can't see this being anything other than a 73, you have a 4th coinage 6d with Acorn or Eglantine PM.

OK, just reread the title! So, a sixpence, meaning a BCW reverse die EG-e

Nice clear example of 5/4 looking at the top of the lions and breaks in the shield I'm guessing this is a sixpence? whether a sixpence or 3d, both are well documented with 5/4, and with the Eglantine being one of the most prolific marks of the reign it's not rare. However, it's great to have unambiguous examples of these overdates...great find, can we see the full coin?

Not for me, Sir!

I was just about to say the same thing! At least one or both are a bad un, they are definitely not the same coin photographed under different lighting conditions!

I'm away at my dad's this weekend, and mostly snowed under with work, exams, and assignments, at the moment, but would love to join this project at some point soon! did you manage to find out the container width of you website, the ideal width for inserting a document into your site? not sure how this thread will/can work in a functional/orderly way, but I'm glad we have it!

"The coins in the slabs go round and round, round and round, round and round; the coins in the slabs go round and round, all day long!"

That's got an amazingly sharp rim and clean cut edge! How do you clean them in the field? Great find, what's the other side like?

Definitely! Very impressed with that technique, thanks for sharing, Leo! ?

Yes, I noticed that! But in the context of the other pewter copies, and in light of the ed1 being commonly copied, I didn't think a £10k+ coin would be sitting amongst them? ? Edit: and at least 6 or 7 of them at that! ?

Sorry for the delay, Mick! EDWAR ANGL DNS HYB closed letters, one piece S, etc. etc. - Withers Class 10cf ...and as I mentioned, other than numismatically, no special significance re the extra pellets!

Pile of junk, sadly!

I've just got to wondering when a variety becomes a micro-variety, and even when a type becomes a variety? Obviously I had my head in an E1 book last night, and have now confused myself over the following...can anybody type T, V, or MV alongside the below examples? Any explanations would be very much appreciated! Elizabeth Sixpence - Elizabeth 1561 Sixpence - Elizabeth 1561 Sixpence, (Privy Mark BA) - Elizabeth 1561 Sixpence (BA) Large Flan - Elizabeth 1561 Sixpence (BA) L'Flan Bust 1F - And then hypothetically speaking, as I'm out without the book... E 1561 6D (BA) LF Bust 1F [overdate/overmark, etc] - E 1561 6D (BA) LF Bust 1F [specific punches, lions etc] - E 1561 6D (BA) LF Bust 1F [FR/FRA, ELZBETH etc] - E 1561 etc Individual Dies (legend positionings etc) - And finally what (hypothetically speaking) would an Elizabeth I inverted 6 1561 Large-Flan, Bust 1F, Rose 79, 6D Broad Arrow over Cross-Crosslet, ELZBETH Sixpence be called? If a Victoria Penny had all the above features, clear and distinct, would that be classified in the same way? Any thoughts?

Hey, Mick, I spotted this one in the other thread but I'm at my dad's for the weekend, so haven't any access to books, hence my memory recall 'only' on the crown type in the other post, but will look at that too when I get back. re the pellets (will look out the class later), I don't believe it intentional, just a partially struck coin being re-entered into the die. It could also happen that a coin of a different monarch is used, leaving some of the remaining details visible in the fields. Equally, it could be old die stock that hasn't been properly cut back before punching in the new design (finding a matching reverse die would confirm this). Either way, I wouldn't say it's anything significant, especially in the field of hand hammered coins. Different perhaps in the milled market. Hope you're well? Will come back to the class early next week, unless someone gets in before me!

Good luck!

Just looking at it briefly without books, whilst is hasn't got all the classic indicators of a Class 11 crown (a lot of it being clogged and poorly struck), what remains points to Class 11 and this is what I think it is, making it Edward II would need a better look with the literature, of course! The galata guide, and UKDFD link are both excellent resources.

Ah, OK, that old cookie called logic!