Coinery

The image of the ob and rev is a far better representation of the coin, with maybe a slighter darker, and dare I say, even grey tone. The iPhone image, well, I honestly can't fathom it at all!

Just for the record, the coin looks more like this, than the above images, with a nice old collectors' tone!

SO, not the best of pictures, I'm afraid, @Paulus has run off with me camera! Anyway, and a huge big thanks to TG for a little short-term assistance, making it all possible, I share with you the first coin I have bought in a year! I'm back, and thank God for that! Edward I Class 1c/a mule, formerly belonging to Jim Sazama, who acquired it, from my calculation, around the time of the J. Mass sale, when he acquired a lot of the short-cross coins from that collection. But that's purely speculation. So, a Sazama penny, sold by DNW lot 300 on 11th June 2014, and it's now mine! I've also got a reference SCBI North 36-7 (I don't suppose, by some wonderful miracle, that it happens to be a plate coin in that reference, does it? I still haven't got, nor can afford a copy of it just yet?).

Do you have coins scales? What are the weights? If it genuinely feels thinner, in all reality it probably is!

Is it greater in diameter than the comparison coin? The rims look wider, could it have been struck without a collar/broken collar?

Wouldn't the deepest parts of the design be the weak areas if a thin flan was used? How did your's strike up, Rob?

I've been looking at the Class 1 Mules in the Edward camp, and can't really agree that they are actually mules. When a situation exists where there are 1a obverses muled with 1c reverses, and vice versa (1c/1a), as just one example (there are many), can they really be called unintentional pairings? The dies were used in combination throughout the lifespan of the Class. When BCW recorded the Elizabeth pairings in greater detail, the very different die characters were thus catalogued as varieties, where many could've potentially been called mules. Are the Class 1 mules of Edward I, therefore, better described as varieties, rather than mules?

Our posts overlapped, Rob, I think we are definitely talking the same language on this one!

I'll have a read of that, Clive, and come back to you! I wonder, does one stand-out die make a coin a pattern? It's unmistakable in both bust and legend, so an unlikely accident? I guess the multiple reverses could suggest it was meant for production? Equally, I suppose, it could be a pattern die being trialled with different reverses to see which one it struck up best with (ghosting, weaknesses, etc.)? The Spink price suggests we are only looking at a handful, so it could just be trialled pattern coins released into circulation because, well, why wouldn't you?

I'm still but a lad with the series, Clive (but I'm working on it! )...is the 1b known to have more than one obverse? It's certainly a stand alone die!

Would've enjoyed that meeting and a pint very much! I agree with you entirely! I think we should be extra cautious in our use of the term 'mule,' especially where coins are known to be minted over a short timescale, it seems ridiculous to do otherwise. The Class 1s are a perfect example of this, where the production date is mostly accepted to be a single year 1279.

Sadly not, Rob! A bit of a shame if there were any, they'd have gone missing over a very short timescale if there were. Could be worth a couple of emails I guess? Is that your farthing?

@VickySilver Quick work, Sir!

Low feedback eBayers, which I'm sure he will be, normally have their funds held by PayPal until you leave good feedback or a prescribed number have days have past! So, just open a claim against him through eBay, that should see your money back and you a little bit wiser!

$70, Croatia, eBay...I'd say I was speechless!

I've had a couple of W4 pennies in the past with similar colouration. I personally thought it contaminants in the metal, or a poor mix? I never properly investigated it however as it was never a series I was collecting, beautiful as they are. Maybe Rob or VickySilver could shed some light? I think I remember VS having some metallurgical knowledge?

Often used as a euphemism in the presence of unilateral wear I agree! Ultimately, when it comes to be graded, whether the wear happened in a Victorian's pocket (his storage facility) or 'storage' at a later date, they'll see it as wear, and grade it accordingly! EF/NEF for me...how that pays itself out as a number, where digs, dings, lustre, tone, ultimately eye appeal, come into play is anybody's guess! I'd be interested, though!

Cabinet friction is a term I think is valid, often putting the reverse at a disadvantage, but there was a rather long 'discussion' about it, if I remember correctly, challenging that wear is wear. I think I lost! I do love the big pennies, good luck with the grading, be interested to hear what it gets!

Just out of interest, what's your view?

I would say most people would be trying to sell it at EF, but the reverse says NEF to me!

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Well done alabomb, good work on the spreadsheets! There are plenty of decimal collectors out there, and some on here, it's great you're getting excited about stuff, it's addictive! ?

A bit of a red herring to call it a penny, really! It was Lot 1757 the Edward I penny in NEF.

I bid £110 on a penny with estimate £70-£100 sold for £230 inc juice!

Hi Iain, Oh, I'm sorry, I've got to do it, welcome to the forum WC! As you say, if you're thinking of inheritance for the kids, you are FAR better off learning about the numismatic aspect of silver, rather than the bullion side. A lot of the silver junk coins will, more often than not, be released at a price which far exceeds their bullion value, so you'd probably have to reach your coffin just to get the outlay back! On that cheery note, you can move forward to the far brighter aspect of collecting historical coins. There is SO much to learn, but the rewards are great. To have a beautiful-toned Victorian crown, an Elizabeth I sixpence, or a beautifully struck-up Charles I halfcrown, made of sterling silver, is a delight that will far surpass the experience of owning just a lump of shiny old silver! There are some VERY experienced collectors, dealers, and all round good chaps on here! Enjoy!