Coinery

Pile of junk, sadly!

Hey, Mick, I spotted this one in the other thread but I'm at my dad's for the weekend, so haven't any access to books, hence my memory recall 'only' on the crown type in the other post, but will look at that too when I get back. re the pellets (will look out the class later), I don't believe it intentional, just a partially struck coin being re-entered into the die. It could also happen that a coin of a different monarch is used, leaving some of the remaining details visible in the fields. Equally, it could be old die stock that hasn't been properly cut back before punching in the new design (finding a matching reverse die would confirm this). Either way, I wouldn't say it's anything significant, especially in the field of hand hammered coins. Different perhaps in the milled market. Hope you're well? Will come back to the class early next week, unless someone gets in before me!

Good luck!

Just looking at it briefly without books, whilst is hasn't got all the classic indicators of a Class 11 crown (a lot of it being clogged and poorly struck), what remains points to Class 11 and this is what I think it is, making it Edward II would need a better look with the literature, of course! The galata guide, and UKDFD link are both excellent resources.

Ah, OK, that old cookie called logic!

Do you mean plate 33 in Eaglen's?

Wow, thanks, Rob, phenomenal! Just as a point of interest the two obverse Ns are reverse barred on my example. Have you seen the coin in the June 83 bulletin? How did you know it was in there, and another class 1d was in the later one?

I'll try and put together an example of what I mean after the W/E. In the meantime, some out of focus phone images of the ticket that goes with the OP penny! I know very little about tickets! I can only interpret/understand: Edward I Id London WT 21.6gr S1383 NEF & Ex F.E.J 18.5 - 19.0mm However, what's: Seaby 22.12.83 (I assumed the 83 sale would be Glendinings)? The red S (sold?????) 6TD WQ on tipex? 83 7565 H? EOT? P24485? certainly a busy ticket! pictures to follow (will sometimes allow me to upload 2 photos taken on my phone...another time it won't even let me add 1).

Rob, what about uploading images and related coins here for assessment and verification/debate, and then I can keep adding them to a series of A4ish PDF files or similar, jpeg by pixel size (your kids would know the perfect width size for your site), etc. (by collection), which you could then upload onto your website under a cascade menu, or however your site manages pages?

Great idea re the ticket resource...we could definitely do with a logical online reference/resource! Equally, it would be great to have a digital record of all these tickets and the coins they relate to, if only to preserve the collectible history of the coins. The OP coin is a class example of potential lost heritage, in that had I not emailed the seller asking whether there was an old ticket with the coin, the Elmore connection could've been lost forever, given the coin isn't a plate coin in the catalogue. Having said that I haven't received it yet!

Ha, yes, the boat is getting smaller and smaller! The seller is sending me the old ticket, so I'll be interested to see where that points me? I'd definitely be interested in a copy of the catalogue if I can make a reasonable link between the two, though!

Does anyone have the Spink 2017 VF price for Class 1d handy?

Hey, thanks, m'friend! Yes, I was really pleased to win it! It was one of those delightful moments where you chuck £150 bid on in the last seconds and then get a really nice surprise!

Not sure what's going on with my ability to post! I've had something glitchy going on since last night! Anyway, many thanks, Rob, much appreciated! Was that Part 1 or Part 2?

Ahh, sadly it's the Anglo Saxon part of his collection - described as 'nearly all coins in plate' so would've been good! Hey ho!

Emailed seller asking whether he had any ticket with it? There's now one on the way for the price of a PayPal beer...best beer I've bought! I'm wondering if it's Elmore-Jones'?

Not as straight forward as that, sadly...there's literature arguing one way or the other across a small window of types, so ultimately you'll have to find a place you're comfortable with, and accept it's the best you can do in light of the evidence! In reality, the primitive method of minting coins and cutting dies of that period are always going to overlap. Consider this: when the great recoinage potentially includes coins that have covered many, many, hundreds of year's circulation, I can't imagine for a second that a monarch's changeover could be distinguished by just a few die/punch details, even when their own vanity is taken into account? The great news is we'll know one day, simply because collectors are constantly asking the questions and digging ever deeper into the dies and historical documents! For the moment, however, I'm personallly happy with the Bente/Withers division. If this ever definitively changes, my coins won't...I'll just move one or maybe two coins along the page, nothing more!

That's very much of use, thanks, Pete! ?

Brilliant! Many thanks, TG!

Lord knows what the circumstances were, but I've just snapped up a coin on eBay for £96 that was sold by Lloyd Bennett only last month! Beautiful little thing in hand! Anyone know where/when the FEJ collection got sold off?

Not sure I feel convinced on that one? If he used the drawings he would also have included the dot below the S and the pellet within the O I think? How/why would he have included or even known about the accurate die crack, unless he had access to an actual coin itself...then the image would've been superfluous to the counterfeiter's deceit, wouldn't it?

Oh, dear! Never been one for the easy road! I'll give it an hour or so, under enlargement on a PC, and come back to you with anything I spot!

The main problem with trying to remove verdigris is that it's merged with the copper surface of the coin; it needed the copper in order to create itself! So, the big issue then is, to remove the verdigris is also to remove some of the coin, and what you get left with isn't pretty! If you have a verdigris spot in the field that sticks out like a sore thumb, then sure a pitted brown spot will look much better. However, if you have a completely green coin (as in Rob's example), you'd better get to likin' green pretty quickly!