Coinery

What an enlightening thread this is turning out to be. I wish I had something to add to it...I'm all ears though.

Stu, Having worked in the City, I have been studying the City's involvement on coins for about 7 years. These are my observations i) There is big group of well to do investors that has no interest in coins but sees coins/antiques as a means to achieve financial diversification. ii) Most of these guys don't care about coins all they care about is multiplying their investment. They don't know much about coins and certainly won’t be able to tell a fake 1905 halfcrown from a real one or a polished bronze penny from an uncirculated coin. iii) These guys either use brokers to help them invest or buy shares in funds operated by specialist Numismatic Investment Firms. You won’t believe how many of these exist today and believe me there are many Investment Firms that deal purely in coins. The reason why we see dealers buying on behalf of their clients is obvious when you consider these things (1) to pick genuine coins and 2)to ensure correct grade attribution). iv) One group depends on brokers to acquire choice pieces for them. This is also why NGC/PCGS graded ocins are important for these guys because then they can dispense with dealers and make a significant saving. Then there are others who depend on firms like LCA that offer a CGS portfolio to its clients with a guaranteed return on funds based on an predefined entry level and a tie-in period (http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=InvestWealthCreation). v) The 'Numismatic Investment Firms' have specialist brokers/dealers who tie-up with big auction houses and source coins for their masters. They operate a fixed-list/rota technique. vi) The technique is simple - they have a list of coins that are either unique or extremely in demand (such as your 1934 crown). Their list (GB200) contains 200 such coins. When a coin from that list becomes available they collude to either notch up the price or acquire the lot below the index valuation. Regardless of how much the numis references value these GB200 coins or how much collectors feel they are worth the punters have their own valuation. vii) Once they acquire a coin from the GB200 list the shareholders see an increase on their investment based on either how much below their index valuation the coin was acquired for or in case of a sale they calculate the profit to be the value above the index valuation that they sold the coin for. These profits are shared across the pool as return on stakeholders' investment. viii) One observation I have made is that these investors never go for circulated coins that way it is currently safe for collectors who go after variants. There are other indices such as the GB350 and GB500 that are being offered by the likes of Citicorp. Soon collectors will start noticing that certain coins are always impossible to acquire. This is why I have stopped selling coins and have started swapping them with other 'Penny Boys'. Somehow I have not come across a 'Penny Girl' so far. Back in the good old ebay days (... and before the days of the snipers) there used to be a fiona.freeserve who used to beat me on pennies consistently. However she used to buy silver and other junk too so maybe there are some genuine Bronze Gals too Goodness me, many thanks for that insight. I wasn't expecting anything like that length of response. Certainly something to chew over!

And once again, this is a serious enquiry, as I am trying to compare costs/percentages against the above conversation, online bidding, or personal attendance on 2.5k+ coins?

Thanks, Nick, Totally agree! Do you think the fee is one of an unconfirmed gratitude, or an industry percentage standard?

Perhaps Nicholas has in part answered the question? There must be a price that an overseas buyer would see as reasonable for a trusted assessment of a lot/lots that they are interested in? Am I close?

Could I ask what are the mechanics of buying for clients? What is it that prevents them bidding/buying for themselves? They are obviously very serious collectors? Is it simply about having so much money that they don't even need to attend? I'm genuinely curious?

I've never bonded with David S in any of my communications either! I'd rather wait now than buy a coin from him as a collector! His arrogant loss, as far as I'm concerned!

They'd run out of numbers, Dave!

Mmmm ... I was looking on eBay and saw this: .. fairly worn example I reckoned and no better than a good Fine to my eyes. However NGC have decided it merits AU53 ... something I doubt they would have done if it wasn't from the Eric Newman collection. Subjectivity is clearly a worldwide phenomenon. Totally agree with you re grade, TG, though it does have some other pleasing qualities which, in my eyes, should only enhance its value NOT its grade.

Perhaps we should sell your two coins, Rob? 151667504155 Talking of which, does anyone want to take at look at Rob's two copies, as they are presently with me? Rob is happy for them to do the rounds if anyone is interested? So, any takers please PM me, otherwise they will be making their way back to Manchester.

121648913889 A genius!

All good news I'd say, except you're an extra tenner out of pocket for the privilege!

231560593021 Haven't seen this one before! It's obvious, but another date to be cautious with, especially when accompanied by a poor set of images.

go on then Scott, get some more up there!

Love that one!

I guess to make my above sentence 'grammatically' correct, the iFault kindly removed the word 'like' for me? Thanks iFault, it reads so much better now! Grrrr!

I'd to know what he has in mind as his lowest offer? What a coin!

Do you post them, or drop them in?

80 and 60! Do they grade with those numbers? That's where I reckon? Lovely florin, Paul! Edit: and 100

I've never used the flash setting ever! I've always added artificial light. My current (and I mean current, as I'm forever changing my mind) set-up involves two desk lamps, one with a daylight bulb in, which I position as close to directly over the coin as I can, without it blocking the lens, and the other with a warm light bulb in, which I hold in my hand and point more-or-less at 45 degrees, moving it back and forth, until I like what I see in the view finder! A pain to set it all up, but I do photograph in batches to justify the effort!

Another day it would be different. I just wish I could take consistent pictures. Trying to find a happy balance of flash, natural light, shading the flash to stop glare, and all the other settings on the camera is a nightmare.It looks very natural, and the rose-tone looks about spot on if you ask me? Quality image!

Very nice lippy, I'll grant him that!

I don't see it as lying, if you can tell me the coins look a certain way in-hand, but the camera hasn't represented that somehow? If you could turn that image into something that was closer to what you held in your hand, that wouldn't be unfaithful, would it? And for the record, I agree, your images are a million times better! They're not blue anymore! Edit: I mean, look at Rob's cnut with all that pink lippy in the legend?

Yes, I agree, I don't get any quality tone at all from the pictures! Do you ever try to correct the lighting/saturation/etc. with software, or are these straight off the camera?