Coinery

I'd say you were pretty much spot on, and a good collectable example at that!

I think it's all relevant, the principles are mostly the same, once you've sorted out what constitutes a weak/soft strike!There is an observable gap between grades (when avoiding the 'other' stuff), which is noticeable for each monarch. You just need to grab a monarch and firstly look at what is considered to be an unc (or equivalent for the period), and work back from there, spotting key areas for wear, and maybe knocking up your own version of Derek's book for Charles 2nd coins, as an example? No reason why not!

To avoid falling into the trap of the TPGCs you have to avoid seeing the bust as a weighting tool in deciding a grade, I think? Far better to have a grade straight down the line, then say weak bust, poor reverse strike, edge knocked, digs to cheek, etc. because, without extensive algorithms, which would need every industry and collector to uniformly abide by, we'd be all over the place, which we are already, even with a simple formula.With regards to one grade for a two-grade coin, I think it would be a meeting between the two, with a statement along the lines of VF 'overall' or whatever! That's how I see it anyway.

Well, no, not really! What I'm trying to say is a grade, both obverse AND reverse, are definitive grades. However, when it comes to giving a coin a number, as TPGC's do, other factors come into play, such as digs, edge bruises, corrosion, etc. (which they mark a coin down for number-wise) and this is where it gets confusing, because you can look up this magic number on the given TPGC's website and come out with a grade, such as EF? So, this is the essence of the divide (quite separate from the idea of whether you like your coins raw or entombed, or whether they are protected or not), because traditionalists will say a coins circulation wear is what determines the grade, not that aunt Doris used it to knock for a gin at the bar, or little Tommy rolled it down a hill for fun when he was 6. These are all things that affect eye appeal, rather than grade, IMHO! TPGC's have somehow managed to confuse the issue of a coin's wear by including damage and tonal qualities, etc. Hope that makes sense?

Hi AC, The grade is a stand alone thing, the obverse is the grade it is, as is the reverse, none takes precedence over the other. The bit you're mixing up I think is eye-appeal and, of course, the added factor for eye appeal (or equivalents of) of the grading companies! There are those that might say a particular grade overall, which might be, in your case, a nip off the rev, and an addition in grade to the ob? Generally, especially with early milled, a design can wear more quickly on one side than the other, and it's then that the great debate begins about whether, hypothetically speaking, if you have, say, for example, a spike in a design a CM high, which protects the rest of the design, at the expense of the other side...would the worn spike, with everything else intact be an AU grade, whilst the other side is graded a lowly VF? Therein lies the divide between graders!

Yes, it will never richly tone again, at least not in our lifetime! It may go brown like a piece of old copper pipe, one day, if you're lucky? Highly polished surfaces need micro-corroding, for want of a better word, to hold a nice patina. It's virtually impossible to reverse a polished surface for toning! As everyone has said, get rid and start again, it really isn't worth faffing around with it, honestly!

I think the point about a low valuation on the 6d is that there are so many top grade coins available, and this will definitely chuck an example like yours into a dealers bargain bin at a fair. I really don't mean that disrespectfully, as all coins mean something to someone (and God knows I love them all), especially within the context of a collection. Bullion value is harsh, though, I do agree!

I would've expected this kind of price, to be honest. Will be interesting to see what it realises!

Just a nice quality 'low-tide' penny. Here's one I sold last year http://george-coins.co.uk/UNCAU-Edward-VII-LOW-TIDE-1902-Penny-P3139016.aspx I also recognise that spot on the reverse...I think I've had that one too! I must look!

The seller also states 'troubled times' as a rationale for the 'over strike'? It's my memory that the tun predates the civil war by some years!

Nest!

Yes, the words 'cuckoo, one, over, flew, the' springs to mind!

Colour of the coin? Edit: sorry, to expand...I mean that the colur and tones of the picture look about right, on account of the skin colour! So I'm thinking the coin must be more or less the colour shown in the images?

yes, thank-you, Paul! Not tooled, just a blocked tun I'd say! Any thoughts on the colour?

What a 24 carat...how can research uncover such a nonsense that has Charles over Elizabeth! Interesting colour, given that the skin colour is normalish?

Doh! Makes sense, now! I thought an Elizabeth I groat was a low stab at the numismatic bag!

VF isn't a really difficult grade for an E1 groat, either! Certainly not in the context of the sort of coins Nicholas generally buys.

I can't recall ever seeing an ex-mount groat?That seems a lowly dream coin for your usual quality taste in coins? Most of them have been gilded or mounted in the past. VF is a high enough aspiration.Why would most of them be guilded or mounted? It's certainly not what I'm seeing.I could understand it if it were 6ds, as these have clearly been holed and presumeably worn by later generations. And pennies, of course, for guilding!

I can't recall ever seeing an ex-mount groat?That seems a lowly dream coin for your usual quality taste in coins?

Reading some posts on this forum while chewing on your dinner can prove to be a choking hazard You can always rely on Peter for a bit of off-topic entertainment! I think he should be a panellist on that brand new TV series 'Shock Factor'!

Wow! A very good library, I'd say!

Indeed!

Very nice, Bagerap! Ain't we just login' this forum!