Paulus

Well that is what is I hoped someone would say, otherwise what is the point of a 1-100 scale if only the top grades can be achieved by proof coins, while proof is not a grade?Does anyone have an example of a non-proof CGS 'fdc' coin? Still feels like a bit of an oxymoron ... Edit: our posts crossed Nick, do you have a take as to how an fdc description can apply to a non-proof coin? I hear what you say, but all things being equal an early strike proof should be better than an early strike non-proof. Therefore, if you measure them on the same scale, there must be a region at the top of the scale that a currency strike cannot reach. Agreed, the likelihood of proofs achieving the very top grades is much more than non-proofs. I wonder, for years where there are no proofs, whether the very top grades are even theoretically achievable? I am just playing devil's advocate here, the subject interests me!

Well that is what is I hoped someone would say, otherwise what is the point of a 1-100 scale if only the top grades can be achieved by proof coins, while proof is not a grade? Does anyone have an example of a non-proof CGS 'fdc' coin? Still feels like a bit of an oxymoron ... Edit: our posts crossed Nick, do you have a take as to how an fdc description can apply to a non-proof coin?

It seems pretty odd to me that the absolute pinnacle that is FDC can manage to span 6 grade numbers at the top of the table. So that's FDC, FDC and a bit, FDC and some, FDC with knobs on, ... What's more, their top 4 numbers all equate to Sheldon 70 - would the Americans accept their absolute pinnacle can be further subdivided by 4? And strictly, should only be applied to proofs. The highest grade for a non-proof is BU or UNC. Which would prompt me to ask whether CGS 88 is the highest achievable grade for a non-proof!

Clearly a misprunt, but I concur wholeheartedly that the grade range is a bit fluid to say the least. Indeed, MS 60-61 I meant (of course) It might be 'only' a couple of grading points, but if it makes the difference between EF and UNC that will matter a lot to a lot of collectors, and to prices/values!

I have a question on the CGS grading alignment 'change'. Prior to the 'adjustment' and the removal of the grade riders from the slab labels, the CGS alignment with traditional British grading was (as Azda posted): 0 – 19 VG, 20 – 39 FINE, 40 – 59 VF, 60 – 79 EF, 80- 100 Unc This is still stated in the FAQ of the CGS web site, and should really be updated for credibilty and to avoid confusion (as Mike as posted). It follows that either: the Sheldon equivalents of CGS scores have also changed (in CGS' view) or the traditional equivalents of Sheldon scores have changed Perhaps they didn't previously try and suggest equivalents across the 3 systems, but if they did, does anyone know which of these changed in CGS' view? As a clear example, CGS 78 is now aligned with UNC (was EF) and MS 63-64. So, did CGS previously suggest that MS 63-64 was only EF, or that CGS 78 was about MS 60-91?

I agree ... and (as I mentioned some time ago) I also find it strange that they adopted a 1-100 scale but only ever use about 1/3 of the available scores. Surely the VF-AU range is worthy of more than 7 different scores?

I thought it my be useful to post this here:

Interesting question. I am collecting CGS graded coins and as far as I know they did not change their valuation by grade „across the board“. Generally speaking they monitor the prices achieved on the market and then adjust prices accordingly. On CGS forum meeting last year I have personally seen their impressive computer database were are the achieved prices added (as well as prices of raw coins). For example 1/2Crown 1836 valued by CGS in grade 80 at 1000,- pounds at that time sold in Lockdales sale 103 in May this year for £1580,- (double the estimate) and subsequently the CGS price on their website changed to 1600,-. In the same sale Ghotic Crown 1847 (in grade 78, valued at 3500,-) sold for £ 4200,- and is currently valued at 4000,- (interestingly in December sale this coin in grade 70 sold for £ 3900,-). I have noticed this as I have been bidding on this coins (unsuccessfully – needless to say). On the other hand I owe 6d 1879 No Die Number in grade 80 – the CGS valuation recently dropped from £ 300,- to 275,-. For me, however, still applies that value of my coins is what someone will be prepared to pay in the future. And I always buying the coins for the price I am happy with. Mike, as far as you are aware then CGS updates its valuations 'as and when', as opposed to annually or soon after the autumn auctions and the new Spink? The values of my CGS coins have not budged an inch in either direction so far, allbeit my CGS 'experiment' is not quite 1 year old yet! Do you know when the next CGS forum meeting is, I think Bill Pugsley told me it was due to be early 2014? Thanks for any info.

That's a very interesting point Stuart. I'm not sure how we can find out, perhaps Bill Pugsley will know, if he is still reading the Forum posts. Or someone with a coin in the points score range in question might be monitoring their CGS valuation ... I don't suppose you made a note of the CGS value of your EF coin when you bought it, and what are they valuing it at now? Incidentally, the grade comparison guide I posted is also printed at the back of London Coins auction catalogues.

I think you're right Dave!

This is the grading 'ready reckoner' from the CGS web site:

Can't say. Haven't seen a link to the coins in question. Here they are: Link 1 Link 2 I can recommend the seller

Excellent!

Everyone have a great day now!

And if at first you don't succeed, try, try, again! 161182357437Link

This is being optimistically ended on Christmas Day, is this one really a Richard III? (i'm not suggesting it isn't, I know nothing about these!) Link

This topic is mainly about whether toning adds to the eye appeal and/or value of any of the coins depicted here, which will inevitably be subjective! I am going to post a few pics of my favourite toned coins, and all comments are welcome as far as NT/AT, eye appeal, grade, authenticity etc!! My avatar coin first: Another toned E7: I want to see other members' NT examples, I love them all! I have more examples to post, but I will wait to see if there is interest from other Forum members for this topic

It's the area I've referred to in the past - the psychological limit for the masses. The limit of about £3K up to a few years ago which has increased to around the 5 or possibly 6K (hammer) mark now. It takes something rare or particularly exceptional to breach this level. Once it has however, it is a case of who blinks first. Glad I'm not one of "the masses" then - my limit is a lot lower than that Mine too!!!!!! Given my purchases to date, I think my 'psychological limit' is £1K.

Cheers, Paulus...there's a fair bit in there you'd like I reckon!Just looking through it now!

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For merde? Indeed! A 'Richard' is also a 3rd class degree ... (just below a 'Desmond'!)

That floats my boat too, and I must confess I would pay a (normally small) premium for provenance!

There is an RD clear at 3 o/c in your OP picture, but it is not visible in the latest one. The S and D stands for shillings and pence (from the Latin Solidi and Denarii), so being a 1/6 your coin shows S D whereas the London Coins example just has an 'S', as it is a shilling. If you think it has a chance, I would do what others have suggested and take it to a reputable dealer. The British Museum may also be able to help.

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Hi Angela, welcome to the Forum! It would be very nice if that coin is genuine, as it looks to be a Charles I Scarborough Civil War 1 shilling and sixpence (or is it a sixpence, never seen one before!), and, if genuine, would be worth a few £K Edit: Sorry, I missed HC's post!