Paulus

They use cameo to described a frosted bust. The difference in cameo and ultra cameo is in the eyes of the person writing out the label. Yes, it's hyping and only comes into play when you have someone buying the label rather than looking at the coin and then making a decision. Brilliant, thanks Rob! Frosted, eh ... ! Guess it looks a bit frosty ...

Maybe one day I will have that sort of budget for coins, but I doubt it! Back to earth, I have an NGC slabbed 1953 proof shilling that is described on the slab as 'PF 64 Cameo', can anyone shed a light on the 'cameo' bit or is it just American coin hyping?

Interesting 99p auction start! As they state, the coin might be withdrawn at any time! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1831-WILLIAM-IV-PROOF-TWO-POUNDS-ULTRA-RARE-LOW-MINTAGE-NGC-SLABBED-/161033625626?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item257e5a201a What do these American TPGs mean by 'cameo' and 'ultra cameo', anyone know?

I would agree with Vicky's grading of the obverse, GVF ... attractive too!

The problem is that any seller who wants a reasonable return has to overprice in order to recoup the ebay charges. When you are losing 15-20% in fees, it has to be recovered by charging more. If sellers still had the option to bypass Paypal, it would be possible to reduce the charges and so lower prices to the buyer. Many of my sales and purchases on eBay have ended up outside of eBay and Paypal, even with my first transaction with a buyer or seller Once a negotiation starts, it becomes immediately obvious that it would be mutually beneficial to cut eBay and PayPal out of the equation (once you have established some trust!). EBay hate it of course, but there are ways and means that are not complicated, and the best thing is it builds you an invaluable network of trusted contacts for repeat business! So I think you may want to experiment with the Bay Rob, see what you think! I used to. I stopped when they made accepting Paypal obligatory. Having previously had a fallout with them which ended up at the ombudsman and me a few hundred pounds richer, it was a decision that I was never going to rescind. eBay's policy of buyer good, seller bad is hardly welcoming, and to ensure you get a fair return, you need to start above £1 which means people ignore the listing. On balance, the hassle of listing for a week or ten days, but not selling because you aren't offering the item on a 99% discount is unattractive. I also find the whole experience very 'seller beware' and slanted towards the buyer. What I am saying has worked well for me is the 'BIN or best offer' listings that quickly migrate to a negotiation and deal outside of eBay and Paypal, and future deals with satisfied/delighted buyers. This can happen on the first deal, and is very common I think! Obviously the buyer and seller don't get the fantastic insurance offered by a regular eBay purchase, but when dealing with proper collectors this has yet to prove to be a problem for me ... might be worth a go for a handful of your hard-to-shift coins?

The problem is that any seller who wants a reasonable return has to overprice in order to recoup the ebay charges. When you are losing 15-20% in fees, it has to be recovered by charging more. If sellers still had the option to bypass Paypal, it would be possible to reduce the charges and so lower prices to the buyer. Many of my sales and purchases on eBay have ended up outside of eBay and Paypal, even with my first transaction with a buyer or seller Once a negotiation starts, it becomes immediately obvious that it would be mutually beneficial to cut eBay and PayPal out of the equation (once you have established some trust!). EBay hate it of course, but there are ways and means that are not complicated, and the best thing is it builds you an invaluable network of trusted contacts for repeat business! So I think you may want to experiment with the Bay Rob, see what you think!

I have done quite well both buying and selling with 'BIN or best offer' recently, I agree 'BIN only' meets with little success, especially if over-graded and/or overpriced (obviously) There is a no quibble return policy with BIN items on the Bay which obviously helps the buyer somewhat

You crack me up Rob, I have never had the balls to send such a forthright message to an eBay seller (well perhaps I should!) My last 'outraged' message was about an apparently UNC coin, the coin was GF at best and I asked him if he was sure about the UNC grade quoted, and did he know what UNC meant. His response was 'Yes, and you are so rude' ... he was an American though!

No mincing there, then, Rob! Honestly, just his attempts to bamboozle was deserving of your response, he can't truly believe a word of it himself? Surely, no-one's THAT delusional...are they? I think some are that ignorant, greedy and uncaring, none of which excuses him in the slightest

She should have bought Premium Bonds I thought Green Shield Stamps were a long-term investment (actually of course I didn't, but there was a bit of a frenzy for a while!) Everyone should avoid these worthless pieces of cr*p ... for the same money as a new RM CN you could have a Roman, or 1887 SH, silly really

Rob please forgive me but I did belly laugh at his reply! Ignoring the many factual inaccuracies, is it remotely possible that English is his 5th language and he used various on-line translation apps to convert from Mandarin -> Vulcan -> Swahili -> Yoda and then into pigeon English? I would love to read your reply to him! :D

Really? Blimey, I look forward to that!

Didn't they? That's interesting. So 9 would be VIIII then ? I didn't know that either, when did it come in, anyone know? William IV is IIII on his coins ....

This one was bought along with a few others (pics attached, missing one side of shilling as I'm limited to 150kb) from a local collector. Total was about $400 Cdn if I remember correctly. Thought it was a good deal, these types of coins are hard to come across locally over here. If genuine, a real bargain! Welcome to the forum!

Blimey! Anyone bidding? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221225134561?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

I must admit, if I collected those, didn't have one, and had the budget, I would have been bidding! My 'blimey' was more about what a superb example it was than the price!

Welcome to the Forum Pennywise!

Can't be done - decent stuff sells, but the crap gets continually recycled via "free listing" weekends Rob, Peter - you both miss my point, I'm not complaining about the relisting BUT recycled listings make any attempt at statistics impossible. Court's suevey is valid because his samples were on the way to the melting pot - ie no coin was counted twice Totally get you David, can you think of a statistically more valid survey?

It's utterly astonishing how cheap Roman silver can be. For example you can pick up EF silver of the commoner types for less than £100, which for 2,000-year-old coins is pretty amazing. As a general rule of thumb, the earlier emperors, and the last few, are usually worth more than those of 2nd-3rd Centuries. If it's not a rare type (and PROVIDENTIA reverses usually aren't) then it would fetch anywhere between £30-£75 as a guesstimate. Better to hang onto as a historical piece. I couldn't agree more Peck, I know it's all supply and demand but what a piece of history at an affordable price! And the condition of them can easily rival coins that were 'minted' 1500 years more recently!

Have you a reference to the catalogue - there's nothing on the web site? No, it's rubbish isn't it, guess they might get round to putting something up there before the 4th!

Off to my first Croydon auction 4th June, perhaps it's a good thing that my coin fund is at an all time low!

I agree with Azda's (Dave's) grading of about very fine, certainly a very bold fine, so if you paid that sort of money then you did okay. If you are anything like me, and keep the collecting bug, you will soon want an example without so much wear - especially as it is one of your favourites! Shill bidding (I am not sure where the term comes from) is a problem on on-line auction sites like eBay. EBay themselves have a guide: http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/how-to-spot-shill-bidding-on-ebay/10000000004031741/g.html If you know how to spot it, and/or are strict about the most you will pay based only on the description and photos/scans, you should not end up paying more than you should. But it can be easy as a beginner to think that what others are apparently prepared to pay is an indication of a coin's value, so learning how to grade and which sellers and dealers to trust would be sound advice - there is plenty of invaluable advice on previous posts on this excellent Forum. Enjoy the hobby, George IIII silver is one of my favourite series too!

Boy, that david4027 (No.2) sounds hacked off, wonder how much he was stung for ... at least they are all listed as forgeries/fakes/replicas