Paulus

Let's see -- an 1893-S encapsulated silver dollar with a CC mintmark on the reverse with multiple examples available from mainland China. I wonder how much it is really worth I sold a CC dollar today at a bit above melt given the mint. It was dire, but numismatically far more collectable than the Chinese version. These types are ok because they are obvious,however it is the dealers or odrinary people who are buying them bringing them into the common market,and they are then sold as genuine,so slowly filter into collecters hands. Mistakes are seen as TPG errors and the slabs are bought up quickly,and cracked,leaving you with a handful of cheap plastic and base metal. TPG also say that they will replace any coin found as a fake in their slab,however forgot to mention that it has to be the original person who had the coin slabbed in the first,that claims,so no good if you bought it entombed. I also asked NGC awhile ago with regards to one of theirs and they said that all coins go through a complex examination,and that it is highly unlikly to be graded wrong,So I thought fair enough you know better (as I opened my 1902 Matt double sovereign,that was marked as 1902 florin,of which I had paid a florins price).NGC you got me on that one. You're kidding!!!!

Here's an amusing one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Battle-of-Trafalgar-2005-Commemorative-Crown-/200882237509?pt=UK_Coins_BritishComm_RL&hash=item2ec583b045&nma=true&si=lwoW94bIzNFaHgBs%252BW1cUSuae4I%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 The seller has sold silver proofs in the past and has described them as such, but in this instance described the item as an unwanted gift and made no mention of it being the gold proof edition, as described on the box, and offering recorded delivery only. The bidding sat at £30 with seconds to go and I decided to take a punt at just over a hundred, thinking that if I didn't get the hoped for bargain I could always return it as 'not as described'. Anyway a sniper nabbed it for just over £525, so someone either got a bargain (the gold proof would be worth double that in bullion) or will be entering into some interesting discussions with the seller! Weird one.

Don't you mean Luton Town Peter? My postmanperson. Who yet again popped a Sign For package through the door without getting a signature. Seriously, if I wasn't such an honest chap (and it'd cause a headache for the seller) I'd be tempted to say I never got it and demand compensation. Thankfully it was the correct address and it was untampered with, but I do worry one day it won't be ... My postie does the same, and the previous one used to sign for special delivery ones himself then pop it through!!!! But I am very trusting so allow it.

Close call ~ bad luck !!! edit: may have been a tactical error on your part to show your hand so early. I bet if you'd put in a last few seconds snipe you'd have got it at a much lower price. No doubt c***r made a manual snipe with 4 seconds to go. You're right.... But I was out for dinner and I can't really sit in a restaurant bidding You pop to the loo with 2 minutes to go, isn't that what we all do?

:lol:

I am looking to acquire an attractive mid-high grade example of this type but I am very new to this area. I wondered what others thought of this one (I was a losing bidder) in terms of grade and whether the winning bidder paid about the going rate for it? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251214086663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Not sure I entirely agree with that. 'Unc' for a proof coin always seems anomalous because a proof coin is either perfect or it isn't. Anything which impairs the coin after production is ultimately wear and the next step down should surely be GEF shouldn't it? Traditionally the term 'proof impaired' was used but seems to have gone out of fashion now; nonetheless the term didn't say how much the coin was impaired, so was I guess only of limited use. I have been led to believe that 'Proof' was not a grade at all, rather a reference to the polished and normally superior dies used. While you might expect a Proof coin to be high grade as they are not intended for circulation, the grade of a coin is something completely separate, is it not? I have seen some low-mid grade Proof coins! Quite, and a low grade Proof pocket piece should be graded F, VF etc. Once it has lost its FDC status then its back on the normal grading system. Totally agree Derek, experienced dealers and sellers shouldn't describe the grade simply as 'proof', laziness at best!

Not sure I entirely agree with that. 'Unc' for a proof coin always seems anomalous because a proof coin is either perfect or it isn't. Anything which impairs the coin after production is ultimately wear and the next step down should surely be GEF shouldn't it? Traditionally the term 'proof impaired' was used but seems to have gone out of fashion now; nonetheless the term didn't say how much the coin was impaired, so was I guess only of limited use. I have been led to believe that 'Proof' was not a grade at all, rather a reference to the polished and normally superior dies used. While you might expect a Proof coin to be high grade as they are not intended for circulation, the grade of a coin is something completely separate, is it not? I have seen some low-mid grade Proof coins!

Not really, no. I take it as the subjective opinion it is, and have the strength of character to make up my own mind on whether or not it actually does detract, myself. Stuff like that doesn't wind me up at all, I'm pleased to say. I just take it as a line that is trying to place the best possible spin on the coin. Something that sellers do. I do too, now, but I used to regard dealers as experts and naively treat their coin gradings and assessments/comments as objective, a lesson learnt but one yet to be learnt perhaps by those new to collecting? Just me being rose-tinted I suppose! It stays in the Room for me!

Time to add a new pet hate to room 101 I think! There are several new members over the last month or two, welcome , and don't be afraid to post anything you like, including any frustrations, questions or maddening things that might deserve to be placed here! I have just finished my monthly perusal of all my favorite dealers' coin lists and am reminded of a pet hate phrase, i.e. 'doesn't detract' This can be interpreted as anything from downright patronising (I am an expert therefore if I say this gouge doesn't matter then it doesn't and don't challenge me), at worst, to Estate Agent style selling at best (e.g. the slight scratch near King's nose and slight edge bump at 4 o'clock that 'don't detract' from the attractiveness and appeal of this rare coin). How on earth can a scratch, each knock/bump, gouge, even weak strike not detract from a coin's eye appeal??? I will buy a coin based on eye appeal, grade, and price, all my own opinion, but it does wind me up that we are in this potentially manipulative market sometimes, anyone else agree?

Hi Gary, I have PM'd you

Interesting, do you have a theory as to why this might be the case? I can't think of any reason why one side of a normally circulated coin might experience more contact or bag marks than the other!

Yep, it gets an aUNC from me too

Happy birthday!

Blind? Assuming there is no silver content, and the £5 coins are still legal tender, £35

Good, thanks Peter - that makes me feel better - I only paid a fiver for it. GVF money would have made me feel guilty! Ignore our resident pessimist - those aren't so much 'knocks' as 'faint taps, almost inaudible' I have to confess it never leapt out at me either. In all honesty i don't think I'd be unhappy if I'd bought GVF blind and your coin arrived! I'll give you a fiver for it, Declan, then you won't have to feel guilty about it anymore! A deformed rim/edge is an imperfection, however obvious. I'm on Peter's side. Me too, the eye is drawn to it, so a negative in the eye appeal stakes, still a bargain though!

I've just come to the end of my first year of 'more serious' collecting (4 years in all) and I actually think I have been quite lucky! But perhaps I am in a minority of 1! The previous pic was taken in very bright sunshine, perhaps exaggerating the mirrored appearance from a previous clean and casting shadows around the lettering etc. This one may be a better likeness: I get all my coins costing over around £50 from dealers Peter, this one is from Bucks Coins I think the 'blue cast' to your photos doesn't help, Paulus - polished coins acquire a kind of blue sheen as well as the mirroring. However, I still think it does look cleaned, but couldn't give a proper assessment without the coin being in hand. But as you say "previous clean" anyway, then no harm done if there was a reduction in price. Paulus, I think that the main issue is the photo. The light appears to be coming from too shallow an angle. In theory, the light source should be as close to perpendicular to the surface of the coin as you can manage (allowing for the camera itself getting in the way). Another issue is the white balance, which is what gives a color cast to the photo (usually blue, yellow or green) dependent upon the type of lighting used. It may be worth experimenting with some of your camera's settings. Here is a photo of the best 1908 halfcrown that I have seen. I don't know if it will help, but ALL of my photos are taken under artificial lighting (my only option presently). I bought a couple of £4 flexi-lamps from Ikea, and put 'daylight' bulbs into them, these you can get cheaply from just about every craft shop out there! I set one above and from the right, and the other I hold free-hand for whatever gives the nicest view (I do have a tripod, though, so have a hand spare for the camera...you might be 'setting' both lamps instead, if you don't have a stand!)! Good luck! I use a single 'daylight' compact-fluorescent bulb right next to the camera lens and calibrate the camera to the light source using a blank sheet of white paper (your camera may or may not have this capability). Thanks gents, can I ask what cameras you have?

Ah, thanks. Is there an up-to-date reference book that covers this? I have a copy of English Silver Coinage but it doesn't seem to go into that sort of detail. I can thoroughly recommend David Groom's book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Identification-British-Century-Silver-Varieties/dp/1445753014/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358043194&sr=8-2

I am still in if postage, customs and slabbing charges are less than 10% of the realised price - it looks pretty clear to me that slabbed high grade English silver is getting a huge premium in the States at the moment, from almost any era! Others still in?

Another gorgeous 'High Grade' gem from Dave's faves: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1859-Gothic-Florin-better-grade-Rare-/271133528492?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item3f20d151ac

I've just come to the end of my first year of 'more serious' collecting (4 years in all) and I actually think I have been quite lucky! But perhaps I am in a minority of 1! The previous pic was taken in very bright sunshine, perhaps exaggerating the mirrored appearance from a previous clean and casting shadows around the lettering etc. This one may be a better likeness: I get all my coins costing over around £50 from dealers Peter, this one is from Bucks Coins

The 1903 and 1905 went west ages ago, can't afford to be a date collector! I wondered what you thought of the grade? Difficult. The reverse looks like it's unworn but definitely polished. The obverse looks less polished but has some rubbing so I'd say EF or GEF at best. So... GEF/UNC cleaned ? I still have so much to learn, I think I can spot cleaned and dipped (sometimes!) but not necessarily polished! I need more tell-tale signs to go by if anyone has them? EF/GEF, was my grading ... Yes, your grade is probably more realistic, though it's hard to spot any wear on the reverse. Quick guide to the difference between polishing and dipping : POLISHING - makes the coin artificially shiny, and reflective. (Do not confuse with lots of 19thC UNC early strikes where the FIELDS are highly reflective, but the DESIGN - while not frosted - isn't.) DIPPING - removes tarnish and other toning, but actually has the opposite effect to polishing - it makes the coin an overall dull appearance, i.e. as if no lustre is present (the chemical reaction probably removes lustre, in fact). Very brief dipping - such as Dave did on that ugly-toned 1913 halfcrown - can improve the look of a coin, but it has to be a few seconds only. A long dip makes it dull dull dull. Do also bear in mind that people use the term "dipping' in two different ways. Some mean any chemical that cleans, which includes stuff that can make a coin look polished. Others (as I do) mean "silver dip" which is a specific type of chemical compound, that always imparts the dullness I spoke of, if done to excess. That's brilliant Peck thanks! How about CLEANING? I always look for faint 'brush-strokes' but I don't know what else to look for?

The 1903 and 1905 went west ages ago, can't afford to be a date collector! I wondered what you thought of the grade? Difficult. The reverse looks like it's unworn but definitely polished. The obverse looks less polished but has some rubbing so I'd say EF or GEF at best. So... GEF/UNC cleaned ? I still have so much to learn, I think I can spot cleaned and dipped (sometimes!) but not necessarily polished! I need more tell-tale signs to go by if anyone has them? EF/GEF, was my grading ...

The 1903 and 1905 went west ages ago, can't afford to be a date collector! I wondered what you thought of the grade?

What do the assembled intelligentsia think of this one? All and any comments welcome!