Paulus

I'm in a major music mood today. I often am on Thursdays, after listening to an on-line radio rock show hosted by a very talented guitarist friend of mine Steve Boyce on Blyth Valley radio, 4-6 pm each Thursday, highly recommended: http://www.blythvalleycommunityradio.co.uk/listen.html He plays classic rock, prog, psych from the mid 60s to the mid 70s, including some obscure stuff, laced with factoids. Are there any serious prog fans on the Forum? Today he played something I had never heard before (he often does), and it's the best vintage prog track - that I hadn't heard before - in a very long time! This band were formed out of Colloseum and other bands, and includes some seriously good musicians, including the legendary John Wetton on bass (later of Family and King Crimson). Check out the bass playing on this!! And general all-round musicianship ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALuhhNhA23Q

Great fun!

Welcome Potlings! Gothic florins can be very beautiful in high grade IMO

This one is top of the CGS charts, finest known out of 32 graded, it was graded 85. Not as nice as Nicks IMO, at least judging by the pics alone. ... and the CGS valuation? An astonishing £350, compared to a Spink 2015 value of £120 in UNC ....

Indeed they are Redd ... the half crown should be roughly 2.5 times the weight of the shillings - in those days (in fact for hundreds of years!) the silver content of the coins was relative (if not exactly equal) to their face value

Yes, I'm not convinced that that is a reliable indicator ... I remember some fakes having a 'line' from the King's mouth to the edge, a pretty sure fire indicator. With the BNTA not sharing the information we need, we really should be able to put something together on here. Problem coins appear to include: 1905 HCWreath crownsNorthumberland shillingsGIII HCGothic CrownsGothic Florinsthere are many others, but shall we begin with those, and document the known fakes from our membership?

Thanks Coppers, interesting article ... greed will always out

May be an interesting watch for some ...

Yes, just 3000 supposedly, so similar-ish to the number of circulation wreath Crowns minted for each year (I know they all vary, with 1934 being <1000) ... which unsurprisingly are also swimming with fakes. For reference this is a high grade CGS authenticated example: I was relatively new to serious collecting 3 years ago, and would like to think I would be much more wise and careful now ... I have steered clear of them ever since, but I would like a choice one for my collection one day, where the authenticity and provenance was beyond doubt! But as my fake example illustrates, a coin bought at auction does not necessarily guarantee its authenticity, and since this example I have had to return coins bought at auction that were passed as genuine but had very obvious signs, such as an incorrect die axis (GIII half crown forgeries often exhibit this) - and this is of course something you cannot check from the pics!

I have posted this before, but for convenience here is the story of this moody Northumberland once again. This was my first consignment to CGS. Bought from a dealer who won it at a Downies auction in Melbourne. I took it to them when I happened to be in Melbourne 3 years ago, after some members on here expressed doubts about it (thanks Rob, Dave, et al) - they were frighteningly ignorant and naive about it, saying 'it was probably okay as most fakes are higher grade'. So I sent it to CGS, who confirmed it as a fake, and eventually got my money back due to it being rejected (via Downies, even though I didn't buy it from them). I asked CGS what gave this one away, and they said a significant factor was the shape/formation of the 6 in the date - the angle of the intersection of the loop at the bottom of the 6 should form a 'rounder '0'.

Looks like London? Tis mine but I haven't got it in hand as yet, I agree it looks like it might benefit from a wash! Moneyer might be Ricard? I'll post better pics when I have it, thanks Rob

Far out

I agree, just a publicity stunt. They may be changing the obverse design for this coin later in the year, according to some reports, but the current design on sale from the RM is clearly available in the 10's of thousands (or more) ... at least it's BU (whatever quality that is these days!)

So who does use the Sheldon scale then?? My question about coins continuing to tone/change appearance after slabbing relates to the grade stated on the slab ... if it is 10% based on eye appeal then this is going to change over time!

It has been known to happen.... Sometimes with severe and costly financial consequences... It hasn't happened to any of my 30-40 slabbed coins yet, but must be a consideration if they are factoring eye appeal in to the grading of a 'forever slab'

Once again Stu, I'm impressed you have ventured over to the dark side of TPG threads! Question ... Do my esteemed fellow Forum readers think that a coin will continue to tone/change after slabbing???

As you can see, Azda is one of our Scottish members! Welcome Kevin

In all probability, I'd grade that as some as struck modern tat. And in 99% of cases, of course, it is! Glad I don't collect post 1946

Not again, they really need to get their act together! Most of these have an incorrect die axis, so should be easy to spot!

Agree with that Peck, added to which they only ever use around 1/3 of the possible grade values from 1-100. And describing a circulation coin with 'FDC' (if only in the translation table) may be strictly ok, but just doesn't sound right! Grades for choice coins are concertinered at the top end (using both CGS and Sheldon scales), resulting in 70 just not being quite good enough! To some it has to be a PCGS 70 Early Strike Ultra Cameo WINGS certified example (population joint finest known)

They have the same scale for proofs and currency issues, and no longer refer to the traditional abbreviation on the slab - so in your example it would simply be 'CGS 82'

This is a mini-rant at the over-grades sometimes given, please do not read on if your blood pressure is already too high. On what planet is this coin remotely MS (Mint State), let alone MS63? I would struggle with GVF (with problems) for this common date: It is a farthing listed on eBay.uk http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGE-II-1736-COPPER-FARTHING-LUSTROUS-TOP-GRADE-SLABBED-NGC-MS-63-/281584625878?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item418fc068d6 Can anyone explain this massive miss-grading (in my view), or is it just another case of buyer beware, buy the coin not the slab, TPG inconsistency/laziness/vested interest?? Makes a mockery of our beloved hobby

link

I fully agree

Thanks Nick, just a minor revision then!